Judson Yaggy Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Grant's info on the older hammers having a 12:1 anvil ratio and thus a shorter anvil making the plate set-up possible makes sense as Ralph said his hammer had a serial number in the low 20s, made in the first couple of decades of the 20thC. And yes, I agree that pics would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hey monstermetal, heres the schematic i promised you. Its no piece of artwork, but it shows what i was talking about. If shackles will fit through the bolt holes, that might be the way to go. I cant really judge without seeing it in person, but i hope this helps.http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19861&stc=1&d=1260931184 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 That is a cool way to rig this thing.. My guess is that picking it by the front and back bolt holes with eye bolts and a four leg bridal is going to be simple and provide a good level lift though... Or even a pair of adjustable chain bridals... Dont you think? I mean if the weight was way wonky I could see the sheave being important but I think the CG of this thing is pretty close to center... I have a good sheave (that ropemaster) and I'll scout up some cable in case we pick it and it doesnt want to fly well I'll rig it like your pic...but I think Im going to try a corner pick first... I'll do my best to take pictures... I think its going to be a mad house when the crane shows.. I talked to four riggers today, only one can schedule it before Christmas so hes the guy... He has a 40 ton truck crane, dual steer... if it takes under 2 hours its $800 2 hours and one min to 4 hours is $1200 and from there its an additional $200/hr I would sure hope I can do it in under 2 hours... Shouldnt be a problem as long as I got everything planed out and all the crap out of the way.... If I have to use the crane to move the 44' boat that is in the way that could foul me up.... This is a lot of flipin work! I was up there at 730am this morning after an hour in traffic to do a bit of work.. then a two hour drive back to my shop... going to have to go back in a day or so to start tearing down the shed and trimming trees to get the crane in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Ok.... Crane is scheduled for Wednesday... I got 6 days.... ugg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Dang that things a real beauty! Good luck with the move and install and everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefarm39 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Good luck from here as well! Don't forget to take some time to take pictures! Frankyluckman (Jesse) you are going to have to start shopping for a serious-sized forge to heat metal up for that monster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Ive moved lots of hammers. Just take it steady. The way to shift heavy stuff is to get the crane hook over what you percive the 'balance' point of the machine to be, then rig down from there. On the nazel the simplest way will probably be a strap under the chin of the hammer (behind the ram) with a bite on the sling at the back of the compressor piston. It does look rather 'ar$e' heavy, so it might be worth taking a small (1 ton) chain block (block and tackle) to attach one end to the crane hook, and the other end somewhere near the motor, you can just level it when the lift starts. Your major PITA on this one will be getting the block out of the ground. If thats been installed properly there will be timber wedges between the anvil, and the concrete. These swell and are near impossible to shift sometimes. Ive spend days on one anvil, and had to resort to breaking the concrete with a JCB to get the dang thing loose. This is my trade secret tip....... if its got timber wedges holding the block in. Get the biggest coach bolts you can find, and weld big washers onto the top of them. This gives you a 'self tapping' eye bolt (drill the smallest pilot hole you can get away with). You can then use the crane to rip the wedges out. Put a blanket or something over the top when you start to pull, coz if the bolt rips out it will fire off vertically. It aint pretty, and is never going to pass a risk assesment but gets the job done! If they have poured tar or rubber round the wedges you can torch the whole lot to soften it up. Make sure the fire is out before you lift the block (I got this wrong once, and nearly burnt a factory down!, an whole different story......) If they have sealed the block in youve got to break the seal under the block before it will lift. Think welly boot (or do you guys call them 'gum boots' ????) stuck in mud. Have fun anhoo, any questions fire away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Boy this is an exciting story. Hope the crane lift is straight forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Hey Monstermetal, The only reason i didn't suggest a four way bridal, is that the center of gravity might be iffy. You could easily overload one cable. Just go big on your cables and you will be fine with a bridal. The 40 ton truck crane should have about 115 feet of stick (boom length). If i am right you will need to be within 50 feet of the hammer (assuming your max weight is under 16,000). And that may be pushing it. Just take your time it will go smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Actually it will be two 6 - 8,000 pound picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Two 6 to 8,000 pound picks will be more manageable for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankyluckman Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I really appreciate the input and help Everyone is giving with this thing. Man-O-Man Larry is going above and beyond.... Hopefully I will be able to return the favor to all that are that are chipping in.. So thanks .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I'm stoked that the hammer which has so much history is going to end up getting used. Plus, moving big stuff with cranes is fascinating to me. Did you figure out how you're gonna install this monster? I have some crane connections if you need them. I'm sure you have it covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Is that last picture the record breaking hydrogen car? That thing is sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 All right... Here is an update... Things got real ugly this morning. I had the crane guy there to look over the site and pick... I was on the phone with him while he walked about... he told me what would have to move and so forth.. no big news... we set the pick up for a week from today... Life is good.... Half hour goes by he calls me back... says he stopped and talked to the road crew working out front of the place.. Says a week from now he will be bringing a 108 ton (weight, not capacity) crane through here... they said no your not.. we are starting to pour concrete down this street on Monday... after we start the pour you not bringing any heavy equipment through here.. He gets me the lead guys phone number and I call him up.... He basically says look.. I got 50 prevailing wage guys working out here and trucks and concrete scheduled... I dont really care what "works" for you... It its not raining we are pouring mud.... So all of a sudden I have two days to get the hammer out instead of 8... So I load my truck up with tools and head up there today... I got the hammer broke loose from the foundation, cribed up and ready to pick, got the shed torn down that was over the top... Basicly spent 12 hours today getting it ready.... So the good news... while I was up there I got the construction lead to come down and look at the hammer and tell him what I was doing... Trying to save this ol girl.... And he is going to help... He said I would have to let the mud cure three days and they he would bring in 1" steel plates to set down where we cross.... Even said I could hire him to bring in an excavator and clean and shore up the crane site... So by the end of the day I was a bit less spastic... I mashed one finger bringing down the shed but Im pretty sure its not broke... My partner Joe helped me all day, He ended up with a golf ball sized knot on a shin from a miss placed sledge swing But the hammer is ready to pick.... Now my big problem is getting them darn boats out of the way.. The first couple pics are of the approach... notice it wasn't a stretch when I said I had to move a 40' container and these two boats... I had Joe stand in the only access with the boats there to give you an idea.... You can kind of see the top of the hammer back there behind the big trees... Also notice the fine Washington weather... rained on us all day:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) Good luck from here as well! Don't forget to take some time to take pictures! Frankyluckman (Jesse) you are going to have to start shopping for a serious-sized forge to heat metal up for that monster! A big forge is a necessity for the big hammer but tolling is probably as important if you want to do more that just flatten (Mr. Sarver can probably hook you up). Some great information is Clifton Ralph's videos, also there is Michael Bondi up in Richmond he has worked these hammers more that most. I think he spent some time with Benetton in Italy (Huge iron). Good luck on the move Larry, Safety is key. Edited December 17, 2009 by Danger Dillon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Larry, you went to town on that thing today! Looking good. It never fails, whenever i have a serious pick to make at work, a rigging science project if you will, something always happens. Looks like its all coming together for you now though. Nice work. Looking forward to the pictures of you picking it with the crane. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Masuk Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Wow larry you guys really got it done I havent had to jack up anything that heavy yet I think a semi tractor is the biggest thing i have ever lifted and that was with a airjack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Would it help if you rolled it to a better location for the pick? A set of Hilman rollers riding in heavy c-channels as a guide can be used to move some heavy stuff. I am working on a proposal to use 4 rollers to move a 560,000 pound rail bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Wow Saskmark that sounds interesting. Are you a rigger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 Would it help if you rolled it to a better location for the pick? A set of Hilman rollers riding in heavy c-channels as a guide can be used to move some heavy stuff. I am working on a proposal to use 4 rollers to move a 560,000 pound rail bridge. Well.... If it didnt have to come over the anvil first.. and it we had anyplace good for it to go... I have 8 20,000 lb skates and have moved some pretty heavy stuff... Last thing was a big Gantry granite saw... But I have never moved anything that was over 100,000 pounds that was all one chunk... I bet a half million pound move would be a real stressful, yet fun task... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I work for a large construction company as an estimator. The bridge I am bidding on is a live rail track that sees roughly 14 trains in a 24 hour period. We have to pull out the existing 120 foot span in 1 piece with a crane (660 ton capacity) and roll the new span back into place with the shortest shutdown possible to get the trains rolling again. The new span is much heavier than the old one (13 foot high girders 142 feet long, solid metal deck etc.). The 660 ton crane doesn't have enough capacity to do the pick from the location where we can place it, so we will roll it. The next option would be a 1375 ton crane ($1,000,000+ mobilization cost, requiring 50+ truckloads to deliver the crane and superlift counterweights to site). It would be awesome to see that big sucker in action...but it would price us out of the bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Is the 660 ton crane a manitwoc? A ringer maybe? I love those big cranes. I worked as one of the foreman on the largest concrete structure in california history. We had four tower cranes on one site. They could pick like 27,000 pounds out on the tip of the boom fully trolleyed out if my memory serves me correctly. That is interesting work you are doing. I have to go through rigging training periodically, i find it super interesting. Must stem from my love of tonka toys when i was a kid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Imagine the size of the rigging to pick that sucker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) Ironstein, which project was that? The crane is a Demag. It looks pretty impressive. Apparently if it has the longest boom with the full jibbing boom on it in full boom up position, it takes over an hour to raise the hook from the ground to the tip. The company I work for is PCL. We have a large industrial division that does a lot of hoisting of vessels, pipe racks etc. up at the oilsands in northern Alberta. The large cranes are routinely used up there. We currently have 2 adjacent buildings going on in Edmonton what has 11 tower cranes on the site. PCL owns about 70 tower cranes right now, the vast majority being Leibherr. Tower cranes work great for moving stuff quickly (pretied rebar cages/mats, structural steel member etc.), but they just don't have the capacity for the big lifts. Edited December 18, 2009 by Sask Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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