Timothy Miller Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 That is going to rock the house with out a foundation. Be prepared to have things fall off of you shelves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Great Stuff! thanks for sharing with the video If you notice the concrete start to spall where the anvil is seated on it you can buy a nitrile rubber, fabric reinforced pad to sit between the anvil and floor, There is a US company called 'Fabreeka' that make them. 1/2" thick will be fine. (it might attenuate a bit of the vibration aswell ) Like grant said some wedges between the anvil and frame will help tie it all together, and maybee have a look if the ram gland is blowing a bit, this might be causing the ram to 'tup' quite low like it is in the video, which limits your space to get loose tooling under. The only other thing is ive had pretty poor results mounting the motor starter on the hammer as the vibration gets them in time. Great looking setup! Ive really enjoyed this thread, and glad to see its happy ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Fantastico!!!!!!!! Just baby blows and that heavy material squashed like a bug. If there ever was need for proof that huge hammer heads do fantastic cogging down of stock this brief video shows it. BTW, Grant sure makes good tongs. Get him to help you size them for best grip. King sized congratulations to you and your extended team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 If you notice the concrete start to spall where the anvil is seated on it you can buy a nitrile rubber, fabric reinforced pad to sit between the anvil and floor, There is a US company called 'Fabreeka' that make them. 1/2" thick will be fine. (it might attenuate a bit of the vibration aswell ) This material by Fabreeka that John referenced is used as the bearing pad material on bridges. It sits between the abutments and the girders to prevent direct contact between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 A stroy by an industrial smith in an old Anvil's Ring about big power hammers and their foundations mentioned Fabreeka. The memorable paragraph spoke of Fabreeka being used alongside the sowblock wedge. Not only did the job, but the wedge could not be dislodged by pounding. They had to cut it out with a wood cutting hand saw. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGropp Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Beautiful hammer! I'm glad to see that it was saved from the scrap heap. It looks like you've defied all the conventional wisdom on large power hammer foundations and installation. It will be interesting to see how that works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 The fabreeka is good stuff, the bad news is it will be about $1000/ for a 1/2" piece to do that hammer ! I to will be interested to see how the 'foundation' holds up. It may well be ok if the hammers only doing an hour or so of medium work a day, its when you start battering them with 8 hours hard work every day the weaknesses will show in short order! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankyluckman Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 You guys and your fancy rubber pads I just mounted it straight to the slab Outlaw style! (Bob Bergman said it would be just fine) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Yes it, the hammer, will be fine, it is the constant pounding on the building that is the problem. From what I have seen of pictures around your shop you have a lot of brick and mortar and that can be shaken and stirred, it is not the hammer you need to worry about. Anything that can isolate transfer of the constant shaking from the hammer to building will be advantageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankyluckman Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Yes it, the hammer, will be fine, it is the constant pounding on the building that is the problem. From what I have seen of pictures around your shop you have a lot of brick and mortar and that can be shaken and stirred, it is not the hammer you need to worry about. Anything that can isolate transfer of the constant shaking from the hammer to building will be advantageous.This building was built in 1921 and was one of the only Downtown Long Beach buildings left standing after the 1933 Earthquake...I'm guessing it will be fine....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I guess only time will tell.... Good luck to you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGropp Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 "Outlaw Style" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I think that replaced "Cowboy Style" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I'm sure it will survive, but mortar has a tendency to weaken over time. This is not a young building by any stretch of the imagination. Even the best built brick structure develop problems with age and this one has been through an earthquake. I not implying that you are imitate danger of collapsing your building, all that I'm suggesting is that you take precautions to safe guard it's continued well being. Why do unnecessary micro-damage when for a relative small sum you can avoid it. In the past eighty years there have been a few advancements in the understanding of structural integrity of buildings. That is one of the reasons for isolating machinery that produces strong vibrations from the building structure. Whether it is the vibration of large air conditioning units, boilers, chillers, pumps or the repeated blows of Nazel 4N power hammers there is a dolorous effect on buildings in the long term. Your Nazel 4N is not some planish hammer that produces modest viberation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I think that set up will work great. If i remember correctly, Jesse's contractor told me that they replaced all the mortar in that building, it looks very stout from what i've seen. Glad to see that thing up and running Jesse. Sorry I didn't get to meet you when i visited with Jeff. It was neat to see all your stuff though. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGropp Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 "Outlaw style" At the real risk of getting flamed over the following , I 'll stick my neck out and try to articulate what I sense a number of members here are feeling. Most of us that follow this forum , do so in an ongoing search for accurate information in regards to a complex craft. Many of us , professional or hobbyist have followed the continuing saga of this particular hammer with great interest. From the purchase of this historically significant tool at a giveaway price, the eleventh hour reprieve from the scrapyard by someone that busted their ass for nothing and the promise that it would continue to work for at least another generation has made for an inspiring story. The fact that this massive machine made the long journey safely and without damage to it's new home was also inspiring. To see it installed " outlaw style " which can only be described as marginal at best and downright dangerous at worst is frankly a disservice to all of us that are trying to assemble a body of knowledge on how to do it "right" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I'm not sure, under any conditions, I would consider an installation suggested by Bob Bergman out of range. The Postville Blacksmith shop has rebuilt, and I assume, provided installation advice for MANY Nazel hammers over a long period of time. Bob's reputation is sterling. The floor it's mounted to might be four feet of concrete. Certainly no one on this forum, without intimate knowledge of the building, would know. Neither would we know what the real dangers are when light foundations are used. The ram to anvil weight ratio of this hammer might work just fine on what might be considered a light foundation. The use conditions of this hammer might make the installation on a foundation dis-similar to the manufacturer recommendations a non-factor. I have seen OEM foundation specifications that seem (to me) to be extremely excessive. I have also seen numerous hammers that were installed in questionable ways (my opinion), but as long as they could not hop around, nor tip over, never had a problem. Causing enough vibration to tilt pictures, or vibrate tools or objects off shelves isn't necessarily dangerous. I wouldn't consider this installation dangerous in any way. Whether or not it will cause issues with the building, or any surrroundings, remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 If this foundation for a crane that the hammer is mounted on is for a cantilevered type crane the foundation could be many times the size of the recommended hammer foundation. I have been looking into putting in a freestanding 1 ton jib crane and have been advised that I need a 4'x4'x5' foundation for that. A crane for loading rail cars would likely be many times that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I too have reservations about this installation. Only time will tell, I guess. All of my experience has been with hammers that were rode hard all day and put away wet. I'd be surprised if this hammer sees much heavy or continuous action. Not to take away from Jesse, but my 500's ate up many TONS of steel a day, every day! Different situation. I HAD to have reliable foundations. If Jesse has problems he'll just fix it outlaw style, regroup and move on. As his anchor bolts were not cast in and are quite small, I'd expect them to be the first thing to fail. Also, being a scant 8:1 anvil with no cushioning at all, There WILL be damage to the concrete after a while. Shouldn't fail in any spectacular fashion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankyluckman Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Outlaw Style = Sarcasm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I think Dave Hammer spoke my sentiments. What I want is for Jesse to continue his posting here and to include us in his early lessons in smithing. It is a real treat to learn from his experiences. He isn't fooling around getting addvice, training, and machinery. And I'm pretty sure he and Bob Bergman had an extensive discussion. I don't know Jesse, but I do know Bob and he's got know how that is decades long in the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Hope nothing said here turns you off to this site Jesse. We all enjoy seeing what you're doing and want to follow the saga. If you have any problems with the installation I'm sure you'll come up with fixes. Just have fun, seek advice and use from it as you choose, that's what I do. Sometimes people say "Well, why didn't you take my advise"? I "took" it, and considered it and made my decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I hope that I haven't been one to offend and if I have I tender my apologies. I was taught there are three ways to do things, the right way, the wrong way and the Navy way, which could be either, neither right nor wrong but just the Navy way, so it may be with yours and Bob's way. While it may not be ideal it will work sort of like the Navy way. Best of fun with the hammer and show us how it goes. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkozloski Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Hey, if Jesse can have his own TV show, build those cool bikes, spend a week with Hofi, and marry Sandra Bullock... he has to be doing a few things right... if the concrete crumbles, he'll just fix it "outlaw" style. Glad your here Jesse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngdylan Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 you Americans and your quaint use of language. Is "outlaw style" the same as arrogant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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