Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) You guys are gonna get sick of my Sketchup drawings, but I gotta practice somewhere! If I were to fabricate an anvil, this is what it would look like. The horn dovetails are tapered so they just slide in and lock. They shouldn't get heavy use, just for shaping. Drawing would be on the fuller die. Made from 3" plate, it would be about 300 pounds. I've seen anvils in England that had dovetails like this. That, plus Brian's design and a few other ideas thrown in. Edited November 25, 2009 by nakedanvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapsteel Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Very nice drawing, I like it!! What mechanism would hold the center dovetail pieces in Place?You guys are gonna get sick of my Sketchup drawings, but I gotta practice somewhere! If I were to fabricate an an anvil, this is what it would look like. The horn dovetails are tapered so they just slide in and lock. They shouldn't get heavy use, just for shaping. Drawing would be on the fuller die. Made from 3" plate, it would be about 300 pounds. I've seen anvils in England that had dovetails like this. That, plus Brian's design and a few other ideas thrown in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan W Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Any marketing plans for the future? On a slightly smaller scale this anvil would be perfect for portability while doing demos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Zap: Wedges with a center-pin, just like in a power hammer. JAFO: Let's say I'm seriously exploring it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 That's really cool, Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Why not machine in the wedge and leave a flat area for regular work, have just one or two dovetails instead of 4 and pop a hardy hole in it? Having all those pieces strikes me as a turnoff. Having the ability to use pieces like that is a different story. Thing is, don't you already make several of those shapes for a 1 inch hardy? Like the bottom set and drawing block? Also wouldn't an anvil that a backyard smith can make tooling for with limited tools be desirable? Using dovetails for all your tooling seems to be reinventing something round used to move things... Yes, I know. This coming from someone who uses a splitting wedge in a wooden box for a hot cut! That will change soon too. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 PK: Well, depends. Yeah a hardy hole or two would be a good idea. Leaving a flat area would defeat the purpose. The main block is just cheap mild steel. Dovetailing a flat and a fuller is more akin to welding on a tool steel face, marrying a cheap body to a hard working surface. Hammering on hardy tools does not compare to hammering on a solid surface. Maybe a hardy hole at each end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Nice design, could you find a local VoTech which could make one or two a semester as a class project and sell them on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I missed the whole mild steel part of the concept. Will these dovetails tolerate abuse very well if someone does decide to hammer on the face without a die in it? If not then that would force you to sell the anvil with a set of 4 dies to prevent customer complaints. Would pritchels be in the flat horn or would you set up up for "dial a hole" right away? I can think of a few times that two hardies would be handy. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Well, part of the idea would be you could buy the "basic" with just a flat tool and then "accessorize" it. Or buy the whole kit (and kabootle), hopefully for less than a "real" anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 PK: Nothing will tolerate abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I like the concept Grant, but I don't like the horn attachments if the plan is to be able to change them. I use similar dovetails for loose pieces on patterns and it is amazing how little difference there is in size between sloppy loose and a locked taper. A tiny bit of rust and they could be very difficult to separate or they could loosen up with use if they have any slop in them. Machining those slots would also be two extra setups and difficult machining on the horn which would make the manufacturing more expensive. An alternative would be to add an extra two dovetails on the top on the ends identical to the four you have in the middle and then have a step cut on the bottom of a longer horn than you show with the dovetail on the step. This would put the top of the horn to the same height as the top of the dies. The key would hold the horn tightly in place as well it would be stronger. Dedicated horns/mandrels could be easily fabbed up for specific jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Thanks for the feedback John. First time around is usually needlessly complicated. The simplest thing that works is usually the best. At this point I'm thinking hardy holes at both ends and just drop the horns in. I'll try sketching it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I find bicks in hardy holes often bounce around a lot. What if you drilled a hole under a couple of your dovetails and then made dies with hardy holes in them. You could then use one of your other ideas and make hex hardy holes as well as square. Easier to make the square holes in the dies as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Now this is the way to design things! Cool, collaboration. Keep the ideas coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Holes in the sides to use for punching backup? Anvil-swage block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) I like it, but where's the corkscrew? To expand on Thomas' idea, you could size one of the inserts so that the smith could reasonably sink a master into it hot... that and a tapped hole or some other way to index a top tool and it'd be the bee's knees. Then we could add a frame and an air cylinder... Edited November 26, 2009 by judson yaggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 K.I.S.S. No, no, no! Sorry, I'm trying to SIMPLIFY it. Have to avoid the "Swiss Army Knife" mindset. But indeed, insert blanks, for sure, maybe a few holes.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Some swage shapes built in would be handy, as well as making it so it can be laid over to use as a floor anvil or upsetting block.That would take either a flat back or a extension on the "face" that can act as a foot on its side. But this may be bringing us back to the "Swiss army anvil" concept Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapsteel Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Which program did you use to draw the prototype anvil? I use a lot of auto cad programs, this looks a lot easier to use, interested in program, Zapsteel!Zap: Wedges with a center-pin, just like in a power hammer. JAFO: Let's say I'm seriously exploring it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Here's where this round of madness started Zap.http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f8/free-2d-3d-cad-15784/ Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Very creative and inovative. My first thought was similar to Prankov's first comment though, Where is the flat spot? Then I started thinking about which parts of the anvil I use the most often, and what could I not live without. Easily most of the work I do is on the center of the anvil, above the waist (most rebound/metal movement). I need the flat plate for an anvil to be usefull to me. Next, I rely heavily upon hardy tools. I make then as I need them, often for inividual jobs. It is a bonus, like free money, if I get to use the same hardy tool again someday. The heel. Must have a heel for hand forging scrolls. The step. Couldn't live with out a step, though I suppose a hardy tool could replace it readily enough, but it is always there, no finding the step hardy, inserting it, removing it, replacing it ect. The Horn. The most used part of the horn for me is the first few inchs, so I could live with a small horn. I do use the varrieing radi along the side of the horn fairly often, but that could be ground into one side of the flat plate. Good luck in your new endeaver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavala Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I love sketcuhup btw wanted to say something on your other post. I use it all the time. My question is why can't you make a concentric cone for the horn, seems easier to machine and more usefull for truing rings. I always see an eccentric cone on the horns on anvils and thought if I were to machine my own how nice would it be just angle it up so it's paralel. I could be missing something though. Thanks Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 Some revisions: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Looks good Grant the only issue I can see is having somewhere you can drive drifts through. Maybe a deep slot running through one of your dovetails running parallel to the dovetail slot? The one thing I really like about the dovetails on my Massey hammer is that the top corner of the dovetail is well radiused. Because of this it is easy to machine the dovetail with just a ball nosed end mill and a regular end mill rather than needing a dovetail cutter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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