Metal identification

[Damascus Mike]

Hi guys its Dm here and ive got a bit of a problem,well i always get told by people of what metals are good and stronge and they use names like 1050 or 1080 and i just cant figure out what these numbers mean,i have searched the web for hours looking for a chart or something explaining these numbers but i just cant find anything,if anybody has a chart or something explaining these numbers and a way of telling what they are normally called i will greatly appreciate you showing me.
thanx in advance Dm

[Steve Sells]

you have already been pointed to the sticky's so you must not have looked very hard, nor listen to the answers for the 167 other questions you have posted in the past 2 months.

Start reading for your information, its all here, we are not your personal servants. hint: there is a sticky about choosing steels, we have a found steel chart http://www.iforgeiron.com/Blueprints-000-100/bp0002.html

Or from a members web site http://atar.com/old/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=16&MMN_position=26:21

Edited April 26, 2009 by steve sells
addition

[unkle spike]

Steve,

Stop hiding information from people, I know you had to look in your "secret spot" or search for hours.......

[Steve Sells]

This happens so much on topics that are already answered in reply's covered heavily in this forum as well as other places, its not like searching for the Grail , But I do have my Shrubberies just in case. :D

Edited April 26, 2009 by steve sells

[jake pogrebinsky]

Here's a link to some info that i found very helpful:Steel designations and common steel compositions - British Blades :: Custom Knife Making
And,Dm-listen to Steve,get off the dead spot that you're on,and try to educate thineself in matters metallurgical SYSTEMATICALLY.
What was that Gaellic saying about how dangerous it is to annoy the blacksmith?Anyway,figure it out!

Here it is:"An uair a th

Edited April 26, 2009 by jake pogrebinsky

[Dodge]

For a second, I thought I was going to have to spend a minute (or less) and do some research to find the answers to questions inquiring minds want to know. However, it seems you guys got it covered. Carry on :D

[Damascus Mike]

as i said already i did what you guys told me and i searched the net and iforgeiron but i didnt find it,besides i dont even know what to type in the search bar, i dont know what the chart is called

[JohnW]

Mike, I believe the above sited links have exactly what you're looking for. I'm about the least qualified to explain it, but there's a couple types of codes the AISI and the SAE codes. The AISI codes describe the steel composition, like 1040 -- plain carbon, .40% carbon where 10xx is plain, 5160 - low chromium (51xx), with .60% carbon. The SAE codes describe a preformance standard. Codes like O1, D2, A2, ect. The first letter is the main descripter, like O=Oil Hardening, A=Air Hardending, D=Die Steel, etc.

[Steve Sells]

as i said already i did what you guys told me and i searched the net and iforgeiron but i didnt find it,besides i dont even know what to type in the search bar, i dont know what the chart is called

Click on the links we provided, if you can't do that how did you even get online to get registered here?

[JamesBBrauer]

Here is one of my secret references:

McMaster-Carr

If someday this link goes dead, this is under the raw materials -> metals -> steel section of the McMaster-Carr website.

- James B

[Damascus Mike]

you what Steve, just 4get about it, because i came for help but clearly you have a problem with me so leave it ill just find it somewhere else

[Dodge]

Mike,
Steve is just telling you that the information you are looking for is in this thread. You simply have to click and READ. This one especially, Steel designations and common steel compositions - British Blades :: Custom Knife Making , tells you exactly what the numbers mean. You don't need to search, you don't need to know what to type in, you just click and READ!! It is just frustrating to us all that we give you the tools and you don't use them...

[phil shelton]

maybe some body should explaine what a link look like their may be a tranlaction prolbem.

[Frosty]

Mike:

Do you have a learning disability? I'm not asking to take a shot at you but you are becoming more than a bit annoying.

People are going out of their way to answer your questions but it looks like you don't even have the common courtesy to read the answers. Then after someone answers the same question a couple times and YOU get mad?

Unless you have a learning disability you have a serious problem. Maybe it's just being young and dumb, we all went through the phase and hopefully you'll out grow it. I know I've met more than one kid who asks a question and pays absolutely no attention to the answer only to ask again or wander off in continuing ignorance.

You repeatedly call the person who generously offered to tutor you in blacksmithing, lazy. My bet is he answers your questions in full, more than once and you just do NOT listen.

Stop looking to other people to blame YOUR failures on.

Not that you'll read this of course but I couldn't stand it anymore.

Frosty

[johnptc]

amen and thanks for speaking up

[Steve Sells]

you what Steve, just 4get about it, because i came for help but clearly you have a problem with me so leave it ill just find it somewhere else

I have a problem with some one playing the membership of this forum for fools, and refusing to respond when we have sent you PM's. You said you will be going to find it elsewhere? You have it in front of your face.

I am tired of this game of yours. I though that after our talk in the chat last weekend, you were starting to listen, I was wrong. so I am going to help you ONE more time, By helping you not post for a while, giving you more time to learn how to click a link for information.

Simply: You may not post for the next week, Please use this time to help yourself. Edited April 30, 2009 by steve sells
typo

[Jason L]

as i said already i did what you guys told me and i searched the net and iforgeiron but i didnt find it,besides i dont even know what to type in the search bar, i dont know what the chart is called

I think pretty much everybody missed the first part of this statement. I know I don't post much but I enjoy reading the topics most of the time. This is one of those occasions that I just can't understand. Someone comes in for help, tries to explain that he went through the proper channels, yet everyone treats him as if he has been caught selling crack at the elementary school.

I'm a member of several forums of various description and I've seen this on one of them before. I no longer go to that forum. Something that people seem to miss the boat on is that the search function is not infallible. I've used the search function on here many times and about 99% of the time, no matter what I type in, the same posts come up and it's usually a very close approximation of the new posts list. The people who have been here for eons know what to type in to find certain things because they've already read the post and more than likely can remember key phrases that will make it come up.

My point to all of this is, if you get tired of hearing a question, and believe me I understand that fully, why berate people if they don't know the answer? Why try to make them feel stupid because they don't know something and you don't feel like answering it again? Is there some reason why people expect the search function to work 100% of the time with 100% accuracy, even if a person doesn't know what to type in? I can understand getting tired of answering the same questions over and over again. I got tired of it myself on several other forums. Did that give me the right to be rude to those that ask again? No it didn't. I just stopped replying to those threads. By the way, not once have I ever told someone to go find it themselves. If I didn't answer their question it was because I didn't reply.

All in all, there are some great resources here. There are lots of very knowledgeable people with a lot of education to spread around. I enjoy the information I get here very much and I hope to continue to do so. I simply think when something is a bit off, someone needs to say something about it. I noticed a lot of posters replying giving this guy a hard time for not reading what people posted but I noticed also that every one of those people griping about him not reading the posts did not read the first line of his post which I will quote again for those that missed it the first time...

as i said already i did what you guys told me and i searched the net and iforgeiron but i didnt find it,

Not one person has come in to say they saw this and understood that he did try. Instead, there are 6 posts out of 10 berating him for not reading after he posted the above quote. I'm assuming you've had problems like this before but I don't know, I only saw this thread and what appeared to be a bunch of people ganging up on one person for not being able to find what he was looking for. I don't think that anyone on here has took the time to think about what new members might think if this is the first thread the look at when they come here.

For the record, it's a public forum and you all have the right to do whatever you want. There is a responsibility though to try to keep things a bit more dignified than what I've seen in this thread. If there have been problems in the past, take it up in private. Just a suggestion. It doesn't embarrass anyone and it doesn't hurt the forums image. If you don't feel like answering the same questions over and over again, don't. It takes a lot less effort to not post anything than it does to jump in and berate someone publicly.

One other thing, I know several people that have learning disabilities and none of them approve of their legitimate handicap being used to slander others. Some of them are even sensitive about the fact that they are different. With the millions of people on the internet, I can only hope that this is not the first thread that someone with a disability like that encounters here. It's offensive to some and rightly so.

My whole point is, there is no reason at all to publicly display this argument other than to prove who has the bigger one. It seems that backing out didn't even end this mess for the original poster. I'm not impressed and I really don't care if my posting privileges are taken away because I've irritated someone who has the ability to take them away. It's a good thing everybody doesn't have that ability or the internet would be blank. Thank God that right is reserved for the elite who know what opinions are worthy for public consumption. This has left a poor taste in my mouth and I think that some time should be spent actually reading the original poster's posts in this thread. I know that several people quoted him but none seemed to have read the words.

For the record, the search function rarely works unless you type in very specific terms and I've found that to be the case on every forum I've ever been to. They work maybe 10% of the time and the rest of the time they just bring up new posts. For example, "steel types" brings up 154 pages most of which have no relevance whatsoever to the different types of steel. Unless you knew that there was a chart for the different types, you might not think to type in "steel chart" which by the way turns up 34 pages. If you don't have the patience to look where you know it is without crawling someone's xxx, then how can you expect them to have the patience to dig their way through thousands of possible pages to find an answer that might not even make the list?

With that I am done with this post. I certainly hope that this is not indicative of the type of treatment every new member can expect, otherwise membership will soon suffer. That being said, I do enjoy the site and I gain a lot of good information from here, I just hope it doesn't eventually turn into endless pages of question with the only answers being "look it up". Many of you have the knowledge, and I assume you came here to share it, what's the big deal? Edited April 30, 2009 by Jason L

[Frosty]

Jason:

I applaud your spirit in defending Mike's right to ask questions. However it isn't that simple and you'll realize there must be more than that going on in this case, if you'll re-read this thread. You'll see his question was answered several times, up to and including, providing him a direct link to EXACTLY the information he requested.

When I asked if he has a learning disability I was NOT taking a shot at him, deriding, belittling nor otherwise trying to make fun of him. It was a completely serious question. If Mike has a problem learning, reading or absorbing information that is handed to him without having to look I was and AM prepared to go one on one with him to help in any way I can.

Unfortunately if there is no disability involved, then he simply isn't reading the replies to his questions. It isn't being mean to tell someone they're being a PITA when it's true. Better to hear it and maybe have to find someone else to show patience when you're young than to discover the boss isn't going to keep you on the job because of it. This kind of rep as an adult can be the kiss of death to anything like a respectable career.

Try to imagine if you will just what would happen to his FREE blacksmithing lessons if his tutor found out he's being called lazy on a world wide PUBLIC forum?

If there is a problem, just say so, there's no shame to needing help. PM me if you don't want to say it on a public forum, I understand that. I've never met anyone who didn't need additional help on occasion, myself especially and I stand ready to lend that help. Provided I'm not wasting my time and effort on someone who simply doesn't pay attention to nor appreciate the help already given.

Frosty

[Jason L]

Thanks for the reply Frosty, although I have to apologize to you and everyone on this forum. I spoke out of turn and I said some things that seemed like a good idea at the time but after having had time to reflect, I was wrong in posting what I did. I gather this isn't the first time an issue has arisen with this particular member but I must admit ignorance on that.

What I was trying to say was that if someone new came to this site looking for info and this happened to be the first post they came across, they might get the wrong impression. I know that this is an isolated incident but I have been reading for awhile.

As far as the links, I understand both sides of that issue. I noticed that lots of people posted links (really great info too) to sites dealing with the original question but it seemed to me that when the original poster replied, he was only defending his position as far as why he couldn't find the info in the first place. Of course I could be wrong and I certainly hope that the issue resolves itself to everyone's satisfaction and maybe the OP got the info that he was after.

In the end, we all say or do things sometimes that we regret and this is one of those times for me. I should have known better but emotion overrode common sense and I apologize for the post. I hope that I've not offended anyone and I certainly hope that this matter will die a peaceful death with all in attendance being well fed at the wake (I am in the south after all). Forgive my impulsiveness and I've asked that my original post be removed since it was not part of the solution. I hope that this matter will be forgotten soon enough and we can get back to what we're all here for, education!

[Glenn]

Jason you are correct. If someone only sees this one thread they may get the wrong idea. DM has 170 posts in just 2 months. Some of the other posts he has made can be reviewed at the following links

Forge weld flux
Heet
First gas forge

Hammer control
Self operated press blue prints
Alcoline as a flux


Wierdly strong metal
Knife and handle
Local 20 mule team borax in new zealand


Crucibles
Blueprints
Begining blacksmithing


Forge welding
Biziloid
Forge housing


Forge blower
Etching
Home made belt sander

[Frosty]

Don't sweat it Jason, we've all said things we didn't really mean or spoke before thinking, and so on. My tongue has a Vibram sole pattern embossed into it. No big thing.

You do however, bring up a good point about another newcomer reading into a thread mid point and thinking anybody who asks a question is pilloried for it. This would indeed be very unfortunate.

To that end though, most of us try to show patience in the extreme. It really takes a lot to aggravate most folk here and to get yourself sent to the corner is almost unheard of. Glenn and the crew go to great lengths to see nobody is singled out for abuse, ridicule, derision, etc. It simply isn't allowed and trying is a good way to get 86ed.

Anyway, you have nothing to apologize for. Sticking up for someone you think is getting short shrift is a good thing. So he deserves a little spanking, we can all use one now and then. He'll be allowed to return and if he's learned a little courtesy he'll be warmly welcomed.

Just ask the Kidsmiths how we treat the next generation.

You're okay with me Jason, I'm proud to know you.

Frosty

[Rich Hale]

Jason welcome to the site. Sorry for the issues this raised, but you, like a lot of us will learn from just about every question posed and the answers posted in response. As you can see these threads tend at times to be rabbit trails and lead away from the original question. And sometimes that gives me information I was looking for. This particular issue is kind of like the tip of an iceburg. There is a lot more of that we do not see. And you are so right that when someone comes in and reads just this thread it seems odd that knowledgeable folks are fussing. Stick around, I am sre we will have more drama at some point but for me this is the gold standard of info on the areas covered.

[Glenn]

Jason, the site usually self adjusts within just a few posts. Thank you for stepping up and explaining your post. Thank you also for stepping up and trying to protect someone you thought was getting the short end of things.

Search engines
There are three search engines on IForgeIron, one for the opening page, one for the Forum and one for the Gallery. Each search engine searches only their area of the site, so you may need to use all three to find the information you seek.

The search engine can be either a simple search or you can click on the advanced search feature. The search engine looks only for the key words you enter, ask for anvil and anywhere the letters anvil appear, you will get a hit. IF you ask for Peter Wright Anvil any where peter, wright, or anvil appear you will get a hit. (I think this is the code) If you ask for peter + wright + anvil only where all three words appear in the same post is it considered a hit. In the advanced search you can limit the search to time, author, section of the site, etc and narrow your search results.

The more you use the search engines, they more user friendly they become.

[Jason L]

Thanks for the welcome friends and I'd like to say that I have learned a lot from reading the posts of some of the greats on this forum. This is one of the best resources out there for someone interested in the craft and the blueprints section... whew! There's a month's worth of reading right there, and worth every second. For the record, you folks have pretty much negated the use of the search function for me since your posts are so detailed (and many times way over my head lol) that further research is unnecessary. There are also so many different ideas going on all the time that I rarely can think of something that isn't here already! The members of this forum are way ahead of the curve on all fronts and I applaud you all!

[Glenn]

Jason, if you have some *extra* time, go to the bottom right of the forum page and click on the archive button. This brings up an outline of the forum. Click on a section, then click on a sub-section. Notice the page numbers 2,3,4 etc at the top of the page. You are on page one. Scroll down and choose a thread. You can read the first question to the last comment all in one place.

We suggest that you take something to eat and a cold drink with you when you enter the IForgeIron Archive. A ball of string is sometimes helpful too, just tie it to the door when you enter (grin).