Wooden Hammer

[j.w.s.]

Just wondering if anyone has any ideas for making a trip hammer/ pedal hammer with mainly a timber structure? Working in a 'dated' setting, I'd rather not have some mechanically driven steel beast setup in my forge this summer, instead I'd like to have something functional that would be capable of replacing my striker (he decided to take some family time) but not take up a huge amount of space as my demo area is aprox. 8x10. I had seen a drawing of a setup from an old forge supposedly from the 1700's that used a water wheel to power a hammer, not sure if it was feasible or just some romantic notion - while I do have a water wheel that used to pump my bellows, that water wheel has seen better days so I'd prefer to keep it leg powered. I'm not sure on the size that would be capable with wood. I do have a small 70lb anvil that could be used in the project and I would like to manufacture most of the needed metal parts myself. Anyway, just interested to know if anyone has seen it done (aside from the giant hammer o doom I found on the boards), thought about it or maybe even has done a project similar to this - any advice would be welcomed!

Edited March 24, 2009 by barcrawler

[Dave Hammer]

You could build an "Oliver" similiar to the photo below.

[matt87]

Are you looking for something mainly to draw stock or to strike tools?

[ThomasPowers]

So far I have seen evidence of water powered tilt hammers from around the year 900; is that early enough for you?

I would perhaps suggest you look at the tilt hammers used at Saugus in the USA in the 17th century. "Ironworks on the Saugus" is a good book to ILL on it as they have pictures of the original remains and the restored versions.

Tilthammers were used for fairly heavy work and strikers with sledges were far more common. I think you need to identify the exact use case you are looking at *and* the time period/place to get any really good answers.

[j.w.s.]

Thanks for the reply Thomas. Some more info. I'll be drawing out larger billets for knife / sword demonstrations. I have my demo's at several scheduled times throughout the day (according to the program) and the average persons attention span is about 15-20 minutes. Since there are dozens of other shows going on in half hour increments I try not too keep a crowd much longer than that. I do sometimes carry some demos on from start to finish throughout the day just to keep them coming back wondering what the next step is. However without a striker, taking a block of tool steel the size of a pack of cigarettes and drawing it out to a piece that's workable on the anvil, is not something the average American will find fast paced enough especially when there's someone about to get impaled on the joust tilt! The time period would be up to the 1610's - I say up to because historically a lot of previous designs would have been continued to be used, if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

To some up. Need to draw at a good pace, keep it interesting and keep the demo moving before junior wants to go get something to eat at Nacho's O'Nottingham! :)

[Frosty]

Try searching for "Tilt hammer" there are a number of historical sites with good pics and one with a working hammer.

Powering one at a demo and keeping it period might pose a problem though. It'd be possible but a PITA to haul an engine and pump with portable hill, pond and flume to "power" it. I suppose you could have illustrations up showing how they really work and have volunteers turn a flywheel by hand. It'd be a good job for "prisoners" or youngsters.

A walking beam takes up a lot of space and requires folk to walk the beam.

A foot powered treadle is old OLD tech and a lathe return spring is certainly within period, virtually anywhen.

All can be made of wood and as knockdown for portability as well.

Frosty

[ThomasPowers]

In such a demo situation I would advise doing the grunt work ahead of time and doing the stuff you can do by hand at the demo. A team of strikers *is* the *period* way of doing such things. As I have said before a historical smithy with only a single person in it is about as accurate as depicting a modern operating room with only a single person in it.

Tilt hammers tended to be slow heavy hitters used to reduce stock size, an example would be a "batter mill" used to make wrought iron sheet for armour makers.

I once designed an undershot wheel tilthammer I wanted to build at a certain place in the creek at Pennsic but moved 1500 miles further away before I could get a team to try to build it.

[martensite]

Would a helve hammer work if you modified the power used to run it??Believe there was one of the northern minnesota metalsmith members rebuilt one ,has a small footprint only two by three feet ???Same idea as oliver in previous post but on smaller scale.

[j.w.s.]

Thanks for the replies so far. Frosty, I never stressed portability in the design, it could be as permanent as it needs to, I do demo's from june until the end of october.. we've been in the same location for 20+ years and I'd like to think we'll remain there..

[ThomasPowers]

So to match the period you need a tilt hammer (or strikers). To be really impressive you could build your own water wheel and recirculate the water for it with a hidden pump; but that's massive, expensive and inefficient. You can also just have a geared down hidden motor turning the shaft with the hammer cams on it. (One of the SOFA members built a large variation of a tilt hammer using an old hay baler's swinging arm to lift and let drop the hammer arm---had a several hundred pound hammer head on it IIRC)

No triphammer even if it's a helve style is appropriate.

Have you looked at all the machinery in "De Re Metallica", Agricola, for great ideas on how the did things in the mid 1500's? The multihead stamping machine might help with the slowness factor of a typical tilt hammer. Also Manfred Sachse's "Damascus Steel" book has a couple of pictures of water driven tilt hammers still in use for forging and Bruno over at armourarchive.org posted a picture of one in use in Italy a while ago.

[Frosty]

A permanent installation simplifies things greatly. That would make my proposal of building an artificial hill, flume, race and pond to "run" a water wheel a lot more practical.

I'd use the same engine to run the wheel and hammer that pumps the water. Water going down the flume and over the wheel would be strictly decorative. It'd be pretty simple to drive a wheel hydraulically. (pun acknowledged but not intended) Engine and pump hidden in the hill while the motor is hidden in the wheel's frame or drive gearing.

Somewhere recently I saw a video of a tilt that had a respectable BPM with a multiple cam wheel driving a short stroke and heavy head.

Frosty

[j.w.s.]

I actually already have a waterwheel - it's about 4 1/2ft in diameter and about 20 inches wide. It runs on a submerged pump in a plastic pond liner, into the small building behind it with a flume extended off the roof running back onto the wheel. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to output much energy and it's already pumping my large below. Guess I should have mentioned that earlier. It is also also in an odd position to the rest of my smithy. I've been playing around with an idea in cad - have to run to philly tomorrow morning so perhaps I'll get a chance to work it out in the car if I can get out of driving. I attached a quick jpg of our setup. For an ariel view to understand the size of the place a little better you can google map 40.225651,-76.428626 (Should center right on our building) Anyway, thanks again for the great ideas so far, each one has brought another idea into my mind - should be interesting to see what comes out!

-J

[Frosty]

Excellent, a sketch plan and satellite pic. Man I love the internet!

I wasn't suggesting you power the hammer or anything with the waterwheel, just use it for aesthetics and have a proper motor or engine drive the hammer. There's no way a wheel that small could drive a useful sized tilt hammer.

It'd be reasonably easy to rig a timber frame to support a line shaft going from the wheel to anywhere else in your area. You may not be able to use belts and pullies but wooden shafts and gears were pretty common tech way back. Just remember it doesn't really have to drive anything, just look convincingly realistic.

Enjoy the drive. I do some of my best problem solving while driving, so long as I'm alone.

Frosty

[j.w.s.]

Well, here's an idea I came up with keeping the KISS principle in mind. I found 20# sledge hammers for around $22 at a local flea market. (Gosh are they freakin heavy, I'd hate to see the guy that uses that everyday!) Simple lever action, however I don't know if the pulley system is a good way to go, as it might bunch/bounce too much. Perhaps springs would be a better idea. Anyway, here's the quick sketch. It'll take up more room than previously though, but I might be able to work that in. Any comments?

Edited March 29, 2009 by barcrawler

[John B]

A Simple hammer design from Leonardo Da Vinci here

LEONARDO DA VINCI - Hammer driven by eccentric camLeonardo and the Engineers of the Renaissance

[j.w.s.]

Thanks for that, I know there's several Da Vinci hammer designs however I've only been able to find his file hammer online. It'd be pretty cool to recreate one of his inventions.

[element]

Google Image Result for http://www.dugnorth.com/blog/uploaded_images/leonardo_trip_hammer.gif

Did you see this one? There must be an idea or two in this design you could use.

[j.w.s.]

Now that is just the coolest! Got the mind a movin' this morning.. :)

[Mike Ameling]

Another possibility would be a variation of the old Coppersmith's Planishing Hammer. It is a large hammer head with a long/flexible handle - as in 10 to 12 foot. The end is attached to a beam on the wall, and a support is placed out under the handle about a foot or two from the beam - to support the hammer head just above your work. You then use your hand to push the hammer head down to hit your copper work. The "flex" of that long wood handle pulls the head back up. Plus the weight/mass of the hammer head does the work. When you get into sync with the flex/rebound of the hammer/handle, you can "tap" fairly rapidly and move a lot of metal. Instead of pushing down with your hand, you could work out a simple foot treadle.

It is the same thing as an Oliver or Treadle Hammer, just with lower technology to produce.

A ... variation ... on this would be to have a spring assist attached above the hammer - to hold it up and return it. That spring could be a half-moon spring like on the Star power hammers, or it could be the same as on a Pole Lathe - just a long green sapling.

Plus having a "hook" hanging down from above would make it easy to lift that hammer head up and out of your way when not needed. And the support brace could be made adjustable - so you can raise/lower the hammer head on the end. This would make it a little easier to switch from using it just as a hammer on hot metal to using it to hit a chisel/punch/flatter.

A 20# sledge head can to a lot of work with such a setup - without having that "dumb assistant" to motivate it.

Just a humble thought to consider.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' german blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. The Coppersmith's Planishing Hammer was illustrated in a 1700's book on copper working - but from an earlier time. It might have been one of Diederot's sketches.