Avadon Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 So i'm ready to start cutting metal for an anvil stand but I need some help. This is essentially the stand I want to make as I have a gladiator anvil. Here are my questions.. What angle do I cut the legs at? Should I shim the feet with some kind of rubber or rubberized machine mount? What kind of material or adhesive should I use to set the anvil to avoid ring? Or should I just use some kind of thin/thick rubber mat? I'm a little worried about getting the angles cut perfectly on those feet. Is there any kind of measuring/angle tool like a protractor with a ruler attached to give me accurate lines before cutting? (I couldn't find one at lowes) I assume I will have to preheat this thick of material before welding, but will that weaken the steel? Will putting gussets in some of the corners add ring? I thought I might do this to help strengthen the joints. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 If that stand is avaielable to you bend a piece of wire to the angle of the legs and use it as a guide for yours..With an arc welder just weld it..if you have too small of a wire feed you will need to preheat it...when you touch the steel with a piece of paper and the paper chars a bit that is about right for preheat. Buiild it and use it and then decide about the ring. a rubber mat under it will even up a bit if it is not really flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Unfortunately I don't have access to that anvil in the picture. I thought someone said 33 1/3 degree's but I don't know if that's even right. I suck at math. I'm guessing I should resseruct pythagorus for some help here lol I know some triangle math is immenent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 One thing I would do is turn the stand around I use the horn a lot and I would only have one leg on that end,,don't get caught up on angles and dangles,,draw it out on a sheet of cardboard or paper...make the overall length about the same as it is in the pic you can use your anvil as a guide to length,,then work from your drawings, on angles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 One thing I would do is turn the stand around I use the horn a lot and I would only have one leg on that end,,don't get caught up on angles and dangles,,draw it out on a sheet of cardboard or paper...make the overall length about the same as it is in the pic you can use your anvil as a guide to length,,then work from your drawings, on angles So you think it would be a better design to have the one leg right in front. That gives more clearance I presume? Do you think I should angle the rear piece of plate like that? I imagine he did that to give a wider base. Is this necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Notice power hammer anvils and how they are backed by the angle of their foot and don't forget that they should be mounted to the Earth as solidly as possible. There is no difference from the way you should mount your anvil and the way you mount a power hammers' anvil. If your anvil moves when you strike it you are losing power just like you lose power if your power hammer is moving when you strike with it. MOUNT IT TO THE EARTH SO THAT IF ANYTHING MOVES AT ALL IT SHOULD BE THE WHOLE EARTH WHEN YOU STRIKE OR AS CLOSE TO THAT AS POSSIBLE. Tie your anvil into the Earth! You wouldn't leave a power hammer just setting there and expect to get much work out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Really? You think I should bolt it down with lags into the concrete? this is the first time anyone's ever reccomended that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) Another thing you can do is make a mock up with lumber. It's a lot easier to tweak 2x4s and a little plywood not to mention cheaper if you make a mistake. Anchoring it down will make it more efficient but most of us aren't doing the kind of heavy work Brian does by hand so it isn't as necessary. Even if you do want to anchor it, wait till you get everything arranged the way you like it, then anchor it down. It's Soooo much easier to rearrange it if it isn't bolted to the floor. Below is my anvil stand. It's far more quiet than a wood block, quiet enough I haven't done anything to make it more quiet. The anvil is a 200lb Trenton which had a wicked ring on wood. I sketched mine up on graph paper, then transferred it to chalk on the shop floor to get the height right. I made the legs a little too close to vertical and it was tippy so I had to make the wider feet for stability. I think that will turn out well though, the close to vertical legs make it more rigid and the wide feet will let me spike it down for demos. The hammer rack wedges between the anvil foot and the stand to make it tight. Frosty Edited March 19, 2009 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Hmm.. I was under the impression that the more you kick the feet out the better the stability is. I think your right though, I think I will make a mockup out of 2x'4's and plywood and then I can get a good reference of what kind of angles and cuts i'm looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbalist Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I would cut the legs a little over size, make sure the angle is the same on each piece and weld them to the plate. Then I'd flip it over and mark the bottom of the legs parallel to the floor ... A thin strip of lead between the anvil and stand helps with noise and beds the anvil down nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TASMITH Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 One thing to be aware of is the tripping hazard of the feet as you work around the anvil. As your blacsmithing skills progress you will find yourself not standing at 90 deg to the side of the anvil. You may be standing corner wise to it as you forge something on the horn or working on the heel. you could get your foot inside the leg of the anvil stand and catching it ,throwing yourself off-balance. Any good sized anvil will sit on a nearly vertical leg stand without tipping. You have a lot of mass in a small area and unless you are bending a bar in the hardy or something similar that is giving you leverage, the anvil is going to sit pretty well stable. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Why not use a lump of wood with the faces cut parallel? It's quieter and cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I've worked on every different anvil stand and more that has been described in this thread and the last threads I've read on anvil stands. I am going to repeat myself because I think it is one of the most important aspects of forging. The mount of your anvil matters! Can you imagine a power hammer being used just sitting on the floor? I've seen it. One association once supplied me with a 50# Little Giant on a wooden pallet and expected me to use it. I turned it on only to show them why I wouldn't use it. THE MOUNT IS EVERYTHING TO AN ANVIL!!! Yes, I can work on any anvil and get something done, but I cringe everytime I am forced to work on an anvil that moves. Once you have worked on a properly mounted anvil you will know what I am trying to communicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Brian Could you post some specifics? Preferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I cant wait for summer to be able to make a cement pad and bolt down the tri-leg metal stand that im about to fabricate. Right now my wooden stand is bouncing and im losing considerable energy and its pretty obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Brian Could you post some specifics? Preferences. If you are mounting to a stump or wood it should be buried in the ground at least 3 feet or preferably farther. I personally prefer a tripod stand because I do travel quite a bit. The feet of the stand have holes so I can anchor to concrete or spike into the ground. The stand that is pictured puts the anvil height at 27" which is rather low, but we do quite a bit of striking on it and I stand in the dirt on my side which is wallered out about 3". 30" is the height that I prefer, but like Mark Aspery said in a previous thread the height can depend on the individual and what you're doing. The anvil should be mounted solidly to the stand, and there are several ways of accomplishing that. The angle of the legs back the body of the anvil. Notice Frosty's stand, It is one of the few stands out there that I've seen that is backing the anvil properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Frosty, I was very surprised to hear that an anvil rings less on a steel stand than on a wooden one. It seems to be sort of the wrong way round don't you think? I need to make a stand when #3 anvil arrives later this year. I was thinking about making a wooden mock up and then getting it cast in iron. Of course I am lucky here because I can get casting done at a reasonable price and the foundries are happy to do one off jobs in sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 So should I device some sort of way to tighten down a 400#+ anvil to the base? I don't imagine that it would hop at all. I could fabricate some sort of tightening camp that pinches down on the feet holding it to the base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I would use the Sika adhesive to secure the anvil to the base. It is surprizing how much it will quieten one and secure it also. Glenn can sell you a tube at the tailgating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinbender Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Hello Folks, Glad to see I'm not the only one with some confusion about stands. Having read much information here, never found a point of total agreement. I worked with a structural engineer ( nice guy ) who walked throught a masonry/steel detail of multiple rebar cased in concrete columns. He showed how many PSI the combined cross section could support if[b the rebar could not deflect. He also noted that the top of each rod had to be in contact with the bearing plates. Not shock loads in this application but force still had to be transfered. I have read here that the weight of the base adds stability only and it seems counter intuitive to my little pea brain. My son has a physics degree so I asked him to mull it over. My plan for a permanent stand goes like this: Cut 2'x2' hole in slab and dig 3', "J" bend four 3/4 rebar and bed in 12" of concrete, bend a 16 ga square to fit the base and anvil height (you may have noticed the name fill with concrete. Burn oversize holes in A 3/4" plate for rebar and weld in. Grind flat and either Sikaflex or use another high performance adhesive to bed the anvil. I don't plan to move it often. Might just be a waste of good concrete? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 That sounds like it would make a great base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 I would use the Sika adhesive to secure the anvil to the base. It is surprizing how much it will quieten one and secure it also. Glenn can sell you a tube at the tailgating. What is the Sika adhesive like? I will have to move this anvil across country in a year or two so I can't have an anvil glued insanely to it's base. Maybe a rubber matt would be better in my position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinbender Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Sikaflex is a one part urethane caulk/adhesive that I have used for years but did not know it worked so well on hammer handles until reading here. I believe Mr. Hofi uses it for hammer handles and to bed anvil bases. I use 201 because I have it, there are a number of products. I think one is for sale here? This stuff is tough as we have had to disassemble a couple of times for changes/additions. UV stabile, water and everything else proof that we tried. Most epoxies lose alot of strenth at 250F and JB Weld states 500F. I have some gallons of marine epoxy that might be worth a try, at least heat would make it not to bad to get apart. Don't know if you would want to do that frequently though? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Sikaflex is a one part urethane caulk/adhesive that I have used for years but did not know it worked so well on hammer handles until reading here. I believe Mr. Hofi uses it for hammer handles and to bed anvil bases. I use 201 because I have it, there are a number of products. I think one is for sale here? This stuff is tough as we have had to disassemble a couple of times for changes/additions. UV stabile, water and everything else proof that we tried. Most epoxies lose alot of strenth at 250F and JB Weld states 500F. I have some gallons of marine epoxy that might be worth a try, at least heat would make it not to bad to get apart. Don't know if you would want to do that frequently though? Dave I am building drill holes in the feet of the anvil i've already started constructing, but I don't think I'm going to caulk/glue it in place until I buy a house and get things situated in a more serious way. I won't be doing any insanely heavy forging, mostly blade making, armouring and sculpture. Doubt i'll be forging any anchors for aircraft carriers lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 My name was mentioned here several times and i woul like to make my ''anvil stand'' system clear. Pic 1 the complete anvil stand consisting on 1 3/4'' steel plate cut acc to the anvil base pattern, grinded the legs are 2''x4'' hollow rectangle 1/4'' thick cut in 23 degrees a plate with an 1/2'' hole drilled welded to the bottom of the leg to secure the anvil to the floor from traveling. The plate is cut with an extension on the prichel hole sid to get more stability,more comfort when forging and for a place for the water can. Pic 2 the slot cut is under the prichel hole to let the drifts and other tools to get to the floor and for many other uses. Pic 3 -4 in the bottom of the anvil there are two holes that seats on the conical pins to prevent the anvil from moving on the plate. I use skaflex 11 fc to glue the anvil to the base to prevent the noise completely and absolutely ! (i never take the anvil apart) but if one wants to be able to take them apart smear the bottom of the anvil with a thin layer of oil before putting the anvil in place on the sikaflex. Hofi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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