Avadon Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Cool Hofi!!! Thank you, Yes that is basically what i'm looking to make. How come you chose such a giant slab for the anvil base? Does that make a difference? I have 5/8's, is that going to be too little? I imagine 1.75" plate cost a pretty good chunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Where is the 23dgs? Is that mesurement from the floor with the legs measured 23dgs off of 90dgs? I'm having trouble figuring where you get that dgs measurement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Avadon here by I atuch two pic's of fast drawing that I made .Hope it will clear and answer your question Hofi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinbender Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 There you go Avadon wrapped with a blue ribbon:) The oil is a good idea though not tried by me. I can tell you from seeing it used on commercial metal buildings where the steel sheets come with a very light oil coating of type unknown the sika still make quite a bond. If I could get the guys to do a quick wipe with acetone the bond is truely insane. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Hofi has the best stand on the market today, and I'm glad to see that he has mounting holes in the feet. When I was with Tom Clark, I never did convince him to add the mounting holes to his feet, but we did put them on the tripod vice stands my brother and I made for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 21, 2009 Author Share Posted March 21, 2009 Excellent, thank you for that drawing Hofi. Yes that clears it up a bunch! But do you think I shoud scrap the 5/8's piece of plate I bought to try to find something like the 1 3/4" plate you used? Also how do you weld to such a thick piece of plate? I woud imagine preheating that to be very difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 To my humble opinion the 5/8'' plate is too thin . But if you have no choise you may use the plate and connect the ''legs'' with a triangl or t shape crossmember in 1/3 of the hight of the legs from the bottom this will hold the constrction together . But again the thicker the plate the better !!!!!! Best hofi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 I think more mass is obviously better, as you suggest. I think I will lookup a 1.75" or as thick as I can get piece of plate. I imagine the thicker plate helps deaden a lot of the ring and take any flex the base may create under the weight of heavy blows? I really want to do it right the first time and not have to revisit it, that's why i've got all the questions I thank you for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 One last thing Hofi, do you have a picture of your anvil on your anvil stand? I just want to see how the alignment pins work. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 HERE I attuch yhree photo's of my anvil with the stand ,tray,water can. and hardy tools, fork,cutter,and the base for the cone not finished yet. you can not see the guid pins. in to foto's I sent before one can see very clear the pins in the base plate and the two holes in the bottom of the anvil hope it is clear now best Hofi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J W Bennett Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Here is a couple of pictures of the anvil stands I make for my anvils. They are made so the height is adjustable for teaching. The boards and the chain holddown also go a long wat to deaden the anvils ring. They are stable and don't take long to make. The first photo is a picture of getting everything staged and ready to take to the 4H fairgrounds. The second is a picture of a single one. The rings are for hardies or hammers. I usualy put hardies in the ones on the sides and then a Ball pein and a smithing hammer in the two on the back. It works well for me. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 Beautiful pictures Hofi, that is a very nice setup. I'm definitely going to use your stand as a guide for how I want to bring mine together. It definitely looks like the most robust stand i've seen. I may or may not add crossbracing underneath when done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Forget that 5/8's piece I have, it's obvious that would make a flimsy stand. I called Turner Steel and got a real evil piece of steel to finish this stand with. This piece is 10.75" x 20" x 2" Thick!! It weighs 122pds. lol. It is decievingly heavy. Get this, I asked the guy "Do you really have this thickness in 4x8' sheets?!?!", "No" he says, "We have them in 8'x20' plates". (O)_(O) A sheet like that has to be easy over 10,000lb, and they carry those plates up to 4" thick!! Amazing! Right now i'm just removing the millscale and cleaning it up. Any ideas on how you pre-heat a piece of steel this big prior to welding? I imagine I can use a oxy/acet torch but that is going to take a while for the piece to soak in the heat. What is a good pre-heat temperature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Why preheat? A stick welder should have no problem welding legs on that piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 you DO NOT HAVE TO PRE HEAT just weld as simple as is .the plat is miled steeI again NO NEED to pre heat .Element is 110 % right Hofi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Avadon, here is a much humbler version of your's and Hofi's, but it's based off of the same design as your guys'. I made with what I had laying around, and it works great even though it's 1/4" plate. I wish I had your 2" plate. With the legs, I did the wire thing, and it wasn't quite level, the legs on the ground. So I would set a level on the anvil face, and tilt the anvil and stand until level, and then grind a little bit off of whichever foot needed it. Works great now and is perfectly flat. The anvil itself is held in place by the two U shaped pieces of metal on both sides of the anvil. Will be ordering some sika glue when I have money for it. But this is the best stand I could come up with being 15 and not really having a lot of money to dispense. Your's looks great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Why preheat? A stick welder should have no problem welding legs on that piece. My stick welder is 200Amps. It's actually a stick accessory on my Miller TIG Dyansty 200DX. If I don't pre-heat won't the penetratioin just be lowsy? In the past when I've welded on plate it seemed like the penetration was rather low and the weld rather superficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Avadon, here is a much humbler version of your's and Hofi's, but it's based off of the same design as your guys'. I made with what I had laying around, and it works great even though it's 1/4" plate. I wish I had your 2" plate. With the legs, I did the wire thing, and it wasn't quite level, the legs on the ground. So I would set a level on the anvil face, and tilt the anvil and stand until level, and then grind a little bit off of whichever foot needed it. Works great now and is perfectly flat. The anvil itself is held in place by the two U shaped pieces of metal on both sides of the anvil. Will be ordering some sika glue when I have money for it. But this is the best stand I could come up with being 15 and not really having a lot of money to dispense. Your's looks great. Looks great to me. I like your idea of leveling. I think I may weld the legs on and then weld one foot on, then I can adjust the other two feet during welding in case i'm tipping one way or the other. I'm still a little unsure about it all so i'm kind of going slow and taking a lot of measurements. Decided not to cut a shape out of that big square block because first cutting through 2" plate is just ridiculous even on a good size bandsaw and second I might as well keep the mass and put the anvil in the center. Plus my legs are 5"x4"x.25 so I need all the base I can get, otherwise it will be all leg underneath lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 It should weld just fine unless your legs are 2" too. If you keep most of the puddle on the plate and direct the bead up the leg about half again the thickness of the leg's wall, it'll be stronger than the leg. On another note: Michael C. I tried to reply to your last E-mail but your server is bouncing me, says my ISP is responsible for inappropriate messages or some such. Please IM me. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 Well I am going to have to disagree with the above and say that pre-heating anything more then about 1/2" is an excellent idea if not mandatory unless you have a welder that can provide adequate penetration without pre-heat, something in the neighboorhood of 500-600amps. Stick welding isn't giving you more penetration then TIG or MIG at the same amps, this is a common misconception. I used a HARRIS J-63-2 Oxy/acet rosebud tip. You can get these for about 50$, maybe less if you search around. This (attached) is about the biggest tip you want to use on a single acetylene tank unless it's a very large tank. It is about 75,000BTU tip. You must never draw more then 1/6'th of an acetylene tank out in an hour for reasons of disturbing the acetone/acetlyene composition and ALWAYS keep the acetylene out of the red arc on your regulator. I also bought the J-63-3 tip, and it is a very large tip and is advised (I was told by Harris themselves) that this tip was made for two or more acetylene tanks Y-harnessed together. So I decided not to use the bigger tip with my current setup and just hold onto it for possible future use, the J-63-2 was plenty adequate. I got the three legs good tacked where I wanted them, then I started evenly heating that piece of 2" plate steel with the rosebud torch taking the chill out of it. Once I got the plate probably around 400dgs I started really bringing the heat to the base of the first Leg I was going to weld on. I probably brought this area close to 800dgs I would guess. Once I did that I was able to get the full penetrationi out of my 200AMP Tig torch which is about 3/16's. Not a lot when your talking about a 2" piece of plate but without the preheat you would have had to sit there all day in one spot trying to heat up the weld pool and most likely you would get lousy penetration or a cold shut. The mass of the steel just wicks away all heat you pour into it untill you bring up the slab to a good heat, then it will hold it fairly well. Thus I emplore you to pre-heat! Everyone from Airgas to the professional welders I asked about this said that you must pre-heat to get a good weld. I would still pre-heat even if I had a 600amp machine. No reason not to. With both of the pieces of steel nice and hot I got good penetration and I started making stringers around the joint of the legs. This is where you lay the first weld into the seam. A second weld bead will be drawn to the left/above and the next weld bead will be drawn to the right of it/below. They will act like two welds sitting ontop of one. Thus you are building a shape that looks like an inverted pyramid. Here is a pretty basic drawing on this link. Look at the circles in the crevice with the numbers about half way down the page Types of Welds A minimum when welding to something so thick would be 3 passes. I think I was doing four to get a wider reach (1 under neath and three welds ontop), to grab more surface area. The result is I have grabbed a lot of that plate to hold to the legs, even though the weld is no more then probably 1/8 - 3/16's thick in most places. Don't worry about warping the steel it is way to large for that, but do make sure you get some nice and heavy tack welds in place before pre-heating as those tacks can bust off during heating and then your left trying to re-align hot metal which is not fun. All in all i'm really happy with the results so far and i'll have pictures coming for this thread soon. Thank you for all the help in here. So Hopefully others will read this before welding up your heavy duty anvil stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 So did you get the stand completed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 We typically preheated anything over 1.5" plate. We were welding them to 5/16" - 1/8" thick light pole shafts. Generally 150 degrees f for 1.5"+ to 1.75". 1.75"+ to 3" plate was 225 degrees f, IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 So did you get the stand completed? Yah i'm gonna have pictures of this soon. I think you'll see that all the time and incessent picking of all your brains has paid off. Just have to get my anvil mounted and then i'll take pics :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 We typically preheated anything over 1.5" plate. We were welding them to 5/16" - 1/8" thick light pole shafts. Generally 150 degrees f for 1.5"+ to 1.75". 1.75"+ to 3" plate was 225 degrees f, IIRC. What kind of amperage max did you have on those welders? Mine is 200amp. I really wish I had something like 250 at a minimum, but 300+ would have been even better. Of course my miller dynasty has a host of other neat features that can get compromised when you go to some of the higher amp welders which don't have those features. Also price is a feature because these welders quickly go into the $5,000.00 + range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Avadon: Make sure you have a clear shot under your hardy hole. sometimes you need to get a punch under there to drive something out. Not sure what all the fuss over "penetration" is about, you ain't building a nuclear submarine! Unless you’re not burning into the surface, penetration only matters in a butt weld. Any fillet weld or prepared “V” weld creates the penetration mechanically. Multi-pass weld of more than 5 – 6 passes are usually not allowed. Multiple passes create accumulated stresses. You’re right that you don’t get as much distortion with heavy plate, but the stress is still there. I’ve seen beautiful multi-pass welds crack out from the stress. Lot of that kind of stuff goes into stress-relieving ovens. When I was with Bechtel any very heavy work that could not be stress relieved was positioned to weld “vertical up”. Didn’t have to be dead vertical, 10 – 20 degrees down from vertical was O.K. Then we welded the joint in one pass! Boy, I’ll tell ya, we didn’t climb very fast even with 7/32 or 1/4 inch rod. Now Bechtel probably has more and better welding engineers than anyone and the results proved them out. Many times since, when I had heavy welds to do, I would tip them up (sometimes only 45 degrees or a little better) and run them in one or sometimes two passes. Actually, it’s easier to get a solid, flux free weld going vertical than flat and (yes) it does give more penetration. It’s a good trick if you don’t have a big enough welder too. Don’t need your anvil anchored down? Just wait, one day you will. You don’t just hit your anvil with a hand hammer, you know. Someday you might be doing a big gate. You find you want to upset the end of that 1 X 2 heel bar. What are ya gonna do, stand on a chair and ram it down on the anvil? Whole lot easier to hold it horizontal and bash it into the side of the anvil. But don’t try that if it ain’t bolted down. Even small movements when you’re doing something non-vertical is frustrating. Brian has been around the block (or anvil, as the case may be). I obviously have way too much time on my hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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