Latticino

Red and White Oak make good, functional knife handles, though they aren't all that aesthetic IMHO. I'm not sure how well they will hold up for a chisel, but that is all dependent on how the chisel tang or socket is designed and how you plan on using it. For a real budget source of oak for scales consider looking at old wooden pallets. The heavier ones are sometimes made of oak or similar hardwood.

With a bubble alumina floor you don't really need a kiln shelf IMHO. It is certainly nice to have a replaceable floor, but the bubble alumina will protect your floor insulation pretty well if you aren't doing massive amounts of forge welding.

We tempered our swords in heated canola oil during a workshop at Peter's Valley. Worked extremely well as far as we could tell. Temperature adjustment came from use of an immersion thermocouple and adjustment of the output and placement of an external NA propane burner.

Quick response to some of your questions: Yes you do need a regulator. Trying to tune a gas forge without one is like trying to drive a car without a gas pedal. Something like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Bayou-Classic-Adjustible-Regulator-Assembely/dp/B007PS0938/ref=sr_1_16?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1500384766&sr=1-16&keywords=regulator (though I haven't used this particular model a 0-30 psi regulator is what you are looking for, not a standard barbeque grille regulator). The needle valve that Jerome appears to use (haven't watched the video closely) is a barely adequate alternative to a real regulator. In any event I strongly recommend that you add a 1/4 turn gas rated ball valve to the gas train to allow you to shut the system down quickly. The 0.043 orifice seems large to me, but that is specific to the type of burner designed. What size does Jerome recommend? Position of the orifice in the assembly is critical. It needs to not only be centered, but also in exactly the correct position relative to the small side of your pipe reducer. By not using the design standard reducer you can't have it in the position the designer has developed, so will have to experiment with that location. From your video it looks like you have too much propane and too little air to maintain a decent flame at the outlet of your burner. Typically the solution for this is to move the orifice tip towards the burner outlet, decrease the orifice diameter, and increase the gas pressure. Needless to say only modify one thing at a time and check the operation afterwards. Tuning a burner is a slow iterative process. Ideally, to have a well functioning forge you should have a burner that will keep a flame at the burner outlet at propane gas pressures varying between 5 and 25 psi. Jerome uses another reducer (actually an increaser) as a flare for his burner. Didn't see one in your parts list. This will make a huge difference to the gas/air mixture flow rate at your burner outlet and consequently the ability to retain a flame at the right location. I believe that he uses stainless steel reducers at that location and I would recommend you source the same. Plumbing supply stores, not standard hardware or big box stores are a better source for these more unusual parts. I know you said the forge is just thrown together pile of firebricks, but they have such a great thermal mass that you will likely never see forging temperatures out of that. Not sure what you plan on building eventually, but lose those hard firebricks.

Just be aware that soft fire bricks come in a variety of ratings (usually by temperature) and you will need to use at least 2600 deg. F bricks for a gas forge interior unless you protect the inner face with a higher rated refractory (and you still may want to have something rated higher directly across from the burner outlet that can take extreme temperatures, like a half thickness hard fire brick or high alumina kiln shelf). I've also seen some recent reports of soft firebrick being damaged in transit (they are rather fragile and the manufacturer's packing is typically not all that great for shipping individual boxes instead of palletized case lots). If the box is costing you, and I'm sure it is, then I recommend that you have someone on hand to inspect it before the shipper leaves.

I assume you are referencing the followup where they note that the joint between the inner and outer stacks need to be at least 3' above the roof level. I'm fairly sure that this is not related to functionality of the assemblage, but is an interpretation of the typical international code requirement to have flue vent terminations 3' above roof structure (for applicable codes in your area see: https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/ ). As with any code references, it is subject to interpretation. In any event, if you do plan on putting up such a tall stack I would "guy" it against wind loading. Of course, if you can tolerate some weather going down your stack the low loss cap could probably be shorter...

I don't think that rockstar was hinting that you were not being truthful, just that you might be making a statement subject to misinterpretation. I think you will find that not all that many folks who have failed businesses talk about it that much. Also, you need to qualify what is a failed business means to each of us. Is it dropping into bankruptcy or just realizing that the lifestyle you lead in that business is not the one you desire. For example I ran a small hot glass studio for many years and always kept in the black, but had I not had a supportive wife who picked up more of her share of our living costs I would have been living pretty rough. Eventually the stress, uncertainty, and physical toll took me back to my earlier career as an engineer. Was that a failure, or just a career choice? I think that you will find that while there are a lot of smiths on the forums, it is only a small percentage who make a living as a full time smith.

As I've stated before, efficiency of a forge means different things to different folks, particularly in a production facility. For example the cost of time wasted waiting for stock to heat up may be vastly more important than the nominal savings in fuel you may get by reducing interior lining thermal mass (not to mention the potential for overall down time if you reduce the durability of the thermal lining and it needs to be replaced). You don't give us information regarding your process throughput (how many of these 1.25" rods you expect to forge in a certain period of time and overall for a shift) or what you see as the downside to your current forge operation. You might want to calculate what the percentage cost of running the forge is per part fabricated and see if a 20% or so improvement in efficiency is going to be significant. My instinct is that the energy use of the forge is an overall small cost compared to that for labor and materials, so an efficiency upgrade may not be worth contemplating, but a lot depends on your process. That being said I can offer a couple of comments based on the information you have provided: It appears that you have a high pressure blower system installed, with a lot of short radius elbows and fittings, including a reducer or two where an air valve is used, presumably for metering. You can likely reduce the fan energy losses by upgrading this system (larger diameter pipe, butterfly valves or VFD, long radius elbows...), but that will only net you a nominal savings in electrical energy IMHO. How is your forge insulation performing (what is the outer skin temperature of the forge)? If more than 5 deg. above ambient it can be improved by adding additional insulation. Of course this will require relining the forge, and whether the downtime and cost of new lining materials is acceptable, or worth the eventual savings in gas is a good question. A 3/4" propane line at 10 PSI without a reducing orifice could put a tremendous amount of fuel into the forge. I expect some kind of metering orifice is included somewhere. That being said, from an efficiency standpoint the goal is to reduce thermal loss exiting the forge interior (other than that used directly for heating the stock). The three major mechanisms for that are conductive losses through the forge skin (as discussed above), radiant losses through the forge door and convective losses with the combustion byproducts exiting the door. Radiant losses can be dealt with by improved door design, though the current long throat of the forge opening appears to be doing fairly well already. Convective losses are more related to the flame speed for your burner system, and that is where I think you have the best opportunity for improvement. To achieve the same BTUH output with a slower speed flame you need to do one or more of the following: increase the burner outlet area, provide optimal mixing of the fuel/air, design the burner outlet to have exit conditions with closer to ideal velocities across the burner jet, and design your burner system to allow precise metering of both air and gas. From your piping configuration I think you should have adequate mixing. The burner outlet design might be improved using a multi port outlet burner (see Joppa Glassworks), or flame retention nozzle. Proper metering can be accomplished by using a variety of commercial products. Your process is really the critical issue as regards everything from upgraded burner design to door mechanisms and overall forge size. If the forge only runs for an hour after all the rod ends are heated and a huge team of workers descend on the heated stock processing them all simultaneously, an optimal production forge is different than if they are all setup like you show, and one worker processes each rod individually. In the former case the forge thermal mass could be reduced to increase effectiveness, in the latter the overall size of the forge could be reduced significantly. If the forge is used for other operations that require that large an opening it may not be practical to make changes in the door design or forge size. I don't see any safety systems installed for the gas train or forge. In a commercial or industrial environment this is more likely than not a code violation that could get you shut down if inspected. If there is an accident OSHA will have a field day. If you want to see what a more typical commercial burner assembly looks like, please see the following: http://www.buckpitt.com/content/file/JA.pdf

Another lovely blade. Haven't seen a single one of your pieces that I wouldn't be proud to own, or even more proud to have made. Thanks for sharing your process for making the buttons. While I'm unlikely to use a similar method, being lucky enough to have inherited a small vintage Unimat, I am still curious why you tapped the disk if you were going to rivet it. Was that just to allow you to hold it more easily in your drill press?

Going to add this and then I'm done with this thread: Pressure used of your fuel source is more related to the orifice size than anything else. If you are attempting to compare with performance of someone else's burner using only pressure, it needs to be both the same size orifice, the same general configuration of burner design, and the same fuel. For example I easily reach 2,400 degrees in my forge (as indicated by a type K pyrometer) with residential natural gas at 7 inches WG of pressure (0.0174 bar), but I have a blown burner, variable orifice, industrial ventauri mixer and a 1 inch gas supply line. 1.5 bar does not seem out of line for a butane NA forge with mediocre INSULATION. A forge optimized for production work is different from one for hobby work. For the former you don't really care how long it takes to get completely up to temperature as long as it holds temperature in a stable fashion, particularly when there is a large amount of stock mass moving in and out of it regularly. Good production forges will have much more thermal mass in their construction than hobby forges for that reason (both will still want to be fuel efficient, but that is more a matter of correct insulation and door design). You most likely don't have the capability to use 8-12 pieces of 1/2 inch stock all at once, or even within one heat cycle. That needs the tooling, equipment and experience that Uri has. Depending on what kind of tools you are planning on making, if the stock is medium/high carbon steel, keeping at elevated temperatures for extended periods will both scale away the stock and decarb the surface. While you are learning I, along with the others here who are attempting to assist you, recommend a much smaller forge. Based on a 5 minute Google search (which presumably you could have done yourself) butane burns at a slightly higher temperature than propane (max temp 3615 vs. 3595), but needs more air in the mix for combustion (almost 50% more). That means your burner design must be a lot different to be optimized for butane. The flame speed from a given burner outlet will be different as well. Our typical rules of thumb and experience with burners will not necessarily apply. I wouldn't comment further on your burner design any more than I would on a diesel fired forge burner, other than to say that I would be very concerned about the burner tip getting so hot and the potential for a dangerous situation for ignition in the mixing tube if you get up to temperature, shut down then restart before the unit has completely cooled off. It looks from the photos that you have a mixture of lightweight insulating BRICKS and heavy hard fire bricks in your forge. While both will take longer than blanket to heat up, the heavy bricks will provide very little insulation at all. As I stated before, to have a well insulated forge you need to have insulation surrounding the entire chamber that you are heating, especially the floor if you have your burners pointed at it. I find your forge design and location near stored combustible materials to be dangerous. I strongly suggest you get the entire setup inspected by whatever passes for a code official in Israel. Barring that I would be sure to have a chemical fire extinguisher on hand, install an emergency shutoff valve in a spot you can get to several feet away from the forge and never leave it unattended while it is firing. Good luck with your journey into blacksmithing. One last thing. I can't imagine anyone on this site suggesting using a piece of galvanized pipe as a flare. Perhaps you mean black steel pipe? The galvanizing is a zinc coating that will burn off at forging temperatures releasing a dangerous gas.

I was recently perusing my 14th edition copy of Machinery's Handbook (dated 1953) and came across the following quote in the chapter on mounting anvils (when discussing mounting anvils on cast iron or hardwood stands): "An anvil should not be strapped rigidly to its foundation, as this checks the vibration which tends to keep the face free from scales, and renders a high-grade wrought-iron anvil little better than one made of cast iron. When a wooden block is used under the anvil, it is necessary to drive in a few spikes to keep the anvil in place, but these should be so placed that they do not bear upon or bind against the corners" Thought that was interesting as it pretty much goes directly against conventional modern wisdom regarding anvil mounting on stands. Of course they also advocate getting an anvil of 300# for machine blacksmithing "if of this weight or heavier, it will not move around while in use or need to be strapped to its block". I guess if you are lucky enough to have a shop anvil of that kind of weight you are all set. Lots of good stuff in this book, still being published in it's 30th edition. You can freely download a copy an older version than I have in hardcover (1914 edition) from Google Books here: http://www.woodworkslibrary.com/repository/machinery_handbook_for_machine_shop_and_drafting_room_1914.pdf which has the same section as well as info on making tongs, heat treating...

Sorry, small waist, large horn and heel always equaled a farriers pattern anvil to me. Of course it does not have the integral posts (not sure the correct term), dual pritchel holes or clip horn that some modern farriers anvils have, but I still thought it might be classified as one (ref.: http://butlerprofessionalfarrierschool.com/archives/471 ). In any event, I personally prefer more of the anvil mass to be above the waist of an anvil as I find they work better for me, regardless of the terminology. Thank you for correcting my presumption.

Anvils are going for crazy prices these days and a lot of folks are wanting to cash in. That looks like a nice farrier's pattern anvil with plenty of life left in it. My first worry would be that the top edge with the "C" on that side looks like it might have had some edge weld repairs. It is not easy to repair an anvil correctly by welding it, and more likely than not could have been ruined. Personally for the work I like to do I would find that anvil a little light, though it would make a good one for taking to hammer-in events or onsite demos. While a pristine Colombian might command a $4/LB price range, with the potential edge repair, lighter than I would want for my shop, and farrier pattern which I don't find optimal weight distribution for the work I like to do, I would pass on it unless it was offered at under $200, but that is just me. For what it is worth, Colombian anvils are typically viewed as one of the better brands, similar to Trenton or Arm and Hammer. On the other hand, for you it might be just right as a first anvil. Not a screaming good deal perhaps, but anvil prices seem to keep going up. Certainly better than a Harbor Freight ASO or a cutout rail track anvil. Most of the cost could probably be recouped if you ever resell, unless it has been wrecked by bad "repairs", and is it worth quibbling over $25?

Didn't see the pictures when I responded earlier, now that I see them I have the following to add/enhance Frosty's typical excellent response: Forge floor, at least appears to be made of full thickness hard fire brick with no insulation below it. With that surface area and minimal insulation I'm surprised you get even the minimal heat you currently have. You must eliminate thermal breaks to the exterior of the forge (insulate between the inner forge skin and any path the outside). Lose the fire brick and line forge per Frosty's direction. The rules of thumb for burner quantity/size/capacity verses forge volume are for WELL INSULATED FORGE CHAMBERS. You forge door is huge and looks like it provides a thermal path via the door frame to the outside even when closed. When you get the insulating castable material Frosty recommends, consider casting a door as well and make sure there is a good layer of insulation between the forge interior and any metal. You might also want to make a small opening in the door for both exhaust of combustion gases required for the type of burner you are using and for working smaller pieces. If you use the back door you seem to have be careful regarding the propane hose location. Also consider a different door operating system that won't have that hot door radiating heat towards the operator every time it was opened. Ideally during operation your forge door is closed or only slightly ajar most of the time. How long was the forge running before you said it would not get to the desired temperature? Was the door open or closed? With that much door opening and thermal mass you are going to have trouble getting up to heat unless you are burning tons of propane. Forge will be very inefficient, not what you want as a beginner. If you are a student of Uri's try to take advantage of his engineering knowledge. Burners: On the plus side you seem to be achieving a nice stable flame in the photos. On the other hand: your flares appear to be slightly inside your forge, and your flares and mixing tubes appear to be made out of galvanized pipe. This is a recipe for disaster and needs to be addressed immediately (if assembled in stainless steel ignore this). Also the burner on the right looks to have a lower flame output. It appears from the photo that the orifice may not be well aligned on that one. I hope the method you are using for holding your burners in place is temporary. If the forge ever gets up to temperature that system may fail with unexpected consequences. Please seal your refractory blanket better. As someone who now lives with reduced lung function due to years of working with unsealed refractory blanket insulation heating chambers I can tell you it is worth it to be more careful. If not for yourself, for your family.

Pictures will help. Especially closeups of your burner design, forge configuration, door system... You may not be aware, but there are many folks who prefer to forge weld in coal forges due to their capacity for localized high heat. A well designed gas forge is typically better for general stock heating. They are also quite good at the generalized heating needed for forge welding of stock that needs generalized heat, like pattern welded billets. Your larger forge is extremely large, likely more than you need as a beginner, unless you plan on going into production. If that is the case you will likely need a different forge design than a typical hobbyist smith. Fortunately you have a world renowned production blacksmith in Israel. I suggest you go see Uri Hoffi and ask his direct advise. I would say that your forge liner is not thick enough. I typically recommend at least 2" thickness of refractory insulation wool on all sides. you don't give us information on the type of heat resisting bricks you are using either. If they are the dense type of hard brick (which I assume you are using) they are a large thermal mass that will take a enormous amount of time to heat up. If there is a thermal pathway to the forge exterior it will also bleed heat. Your idea of adding more hard bricks to the forge interior will most likely not help and may make things worse. Better doors and insulation will likely help more, larger burner ports for larger burners should be easy for a smith who has built three forges to accomplish as well. For the same size burner opening a blower assisted burner can be designed to put out more heat than a naturally aspirated/ventauri type. However you need to have the correct regulators and tanks (if using propane) to handle the greater gas flow as well. Blown burners will also need additional safety equipment as well as a different design. I'm not sure how these posts will help you as they are written in the same English as the existing posts on the site that cover gas forge design that you say you can't reference. I suggest you go see Uri, by all accounts he is an excellent teacher and engineer and if approached correctly may be able to set you straight.

Ed also believes that 1" of blanket insulates better than 2". He is a fabulous knife maker and a heck of a helpful guy, but I don't always buy his reasoning.

Fabricated steel doors will get hot, warp and scale away in time. If you do use one design for that. Personally my favorite doors have a high temperature castable hot face that is held in place by a thick steel frame with some kind of operating system to be able to be opened with a foot pedal, or one hand at worst. Of course I still haven't made one for my current forge... Make sure you leave space under your half fire brick for insulation. I prefer 2"of blanket for better insulation.

Personally I would use a minimum of either (2) layers of 1" blanket or (1) layer of 2" blanket of at least 6# density (8 will also work). Blanket rated to 2300 deg F will work, but will be better with an inner coating of a true refractory insulation material (i.e. the Kastolite that Frosty mentions above). That inner layer should be at least 1/2" thick, but can be much thicker. No idea on pricing, check Wayne Coe's or High Temp Tools sites for alternatives to compare to.

OK this is a great illustration of why using YouTube as a source of info can send you down a bad path. Unfortunately there is more wrong with this forge design than right. At best it will heat metal slightly better than the torch in open air, at worst... well I'm not going to go there. I don't mean to be overly blunt, but if you can't be bothered to do any searching through the many posts on gas forge design in this forum I would expect you could have at least read the rest of this particular post. The OP had a reasonable shell design, with the exception of not properly sealing his refractory blanket insulation (a safety issue more than a functionality issue). He got good feedback from Frosty on why a weed burner is a bad choice for a forge burner. What Frosty omitted is that he has personally come up with a very easy to construct from common plumbing parts NA burner (the Frosty Tee burner) that would be a viable alternative for the OP, and you (though if this forge is an illustration of your level of fabrication skills I recommend that you bite the bullet and just buy a commercially made one). Your forge is orders of magnitude worse. Lets run down a couple of things: A plaster of paris and sand mix is not either a good insulator or a good refractory material. It will not efficiently hold heat and will break down in short order at the more ideal steel forging temperatures. Your weed burner is not a well designed heater for either that size of forge, or to be honest any forge at all. It is made to operate in open air and likely too large to develop a stable flame inside such a small forge volume. You have the front end of the burner too far into your "forge". If it ever got hot it would destroy that tip The fan will not act as a bellows in the configuration you have it setup. It might do a little as a kind of supercharger to induce a little more air into the burner, but it could just as easily screw up the limited induction that such a burner naturally has. Have you tested this configuration? I strongly recommend putting both a 0-30 PSI regulator and a 1/4 turn shutoff ball valve in your gas train. Your forge chamber does not have a "back door" used for a pass through. There don't seem to be any easy provisions for a front door or shelf either. Your tape/cloth wrapped piece of cardboard tube will not work as a safe forge stand. Hopefully that is just temporary I'm sorry if I appear overly harsh. You asked for feedback on making it better. Your setup may be worth trying out (might as well try to prove me wrong, I guess), but be sure to have lots of safety equipment around when you do. Personally I would push on to forge #3... (what ever happened to forge #1?)

I have drifted a couple of hammer heads that were made out of wrought iron with forge welded steel faces. Even at larger stock sizes it can be a real chore keeping the material hot enough not to split along the "grain". On the other hand, when it is at the right heat it works like a dream. Kind of have a love/hate relationship with wrought...

Like it, very clean bevels. Is that one of your signature forge welded nut finials?

Nice job. I've got some similar stock kicking around and will have to put one of those on the list.

Actually according to the manufacturer (and I'm no supporter of majestic, just wanted you to see the side opening door) the interior volume is 864 cu inches. At 450 BTUH/Cubic inch we are at around 389 MBH, or about 78 MBH per burner. This is easily achievable. I think the hand torch I mentioned above was rated around 150 MBH max output and Zoeller's 3/4" Z-burner is reported to be measured up to close to 120 MBH.