gote

Coper in contact with food has always been coated with tin n.b. tin not solder containg lead and other stuff. This side of the pond you can buy sets for tinning food utensils that are not dangerous to use. In principle you clean the surface, put on a paste and hold it over a flame or forge if you have one. When the paste runs you are finished. This is the traditional way of doing it and you can buff off any tin that has run to the outside of the ladle. Copper is extensively used for water pipes so the poison thing cannot be that severe unless you store food. Community water suppliers usually increase the pH artificially to decrease the rate of corrosion in the pipes so the type of rock is not that significant. Food can be considerably more acid than water in a granite area. There is vinegar in many dishes. There are areas in Europe where copper is not allowed as roofing because of the leakage of copper ions. As usual the poisoning effect depends upon the dose. I would tin th einside it looks quite good. The traditional skillet here has an iron handle is made from copper and tin coated on the inside.

What about size of coal. Since the burning goes on on the surface of the coal, the smaller the pieces, the more heat generated on the surface. For the same reason there tends to be less oxygen that burns the steel and oxidizes the surface. We all have our bad days - regardless of what we do - but usually there is an unnoticed factor hat gives the trouble. When it is found, "luck" suddenly appears. Sometimes the factor is haste. Wayne's advice is good. If you walk away you might figure out what went wrong. I was once given the advice when a car would not start. "Walk one turn clockwise around the car and kick every tyre. then do it counter clockwise." It usually works - at least with old fashioned vhicles with carburettors.

ianinsa I was not making this up. I suggest you do as I did: I.e. check your perception with a reliable encyclopedia or even better a theological handbook. I still think your post is offensive. Further I object to your use of ‘European’. I am European and I know that Europeans usually are well cognizant about other parts of the world.. Perhaps Europeans in SA are not. Re Chinese Iron, I looked in my books and Chng Te Kun and Kwan-Chih Chan both state that although at least one Iron artefact from the Shang-period (pre-1000BC) has been found it contained meteoritic Iron. Smelting started as Ianinsa says in the western Chou (sorry I am so old that I use Hepburn notation) 1000-750 BC. For a very long time Iron was only used as cast - probably because there was a half millenium old tradition of casting bronze products.

Hope you are sucessful. My object was to avoid making hole in the roof which is a bane in my climate. Draft induction is precisely the job my cleaner does. (I think we bougt it in the sixties the fan is still OK)

I think that there is a lot of over-reaction in this thread. (I also think that someone who edits/adds to posts by others should sign the edit/addition.) I read Glenn as that he half in joke pointed out to SRS that he could start his report by referring to the Bible. The fact that the Bible references Blacksmithing as a very early art is a demonstration that it has been considered important for a very long time and that is true and relevant regardless of religious belief. As a religious/theological term, 'mythology' is not pejorative. A myth is "a narrative about a Divine course of events that has a fundamental meaning for human existence" (This is not from wikipedia but from a highly respected encyclopedia). To say : "I don't care what your beliefs are" and "you also peeing in the tea pot" is - to put it mildly - not particularly courteous. By 'historical record', most people mean something that is corroborated by a CONTEMPORARY record in the form of document or archeological find. Even if parts of the Bible are supported by such record, I am quite sure that Tubal-Cain is not. Blacksmithing refers to the working of iron so copper age is not really relevant to the question even if methods probably were transmithed :-). However, I suggest reading. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305440313002057. This puts the oldest found iron artifacts to ca 3200 BC. you should pay more attention. This question has been asked and explained in detail. We even gave it a week long trial to prove it.

This is my setup. I have an old vacuum cleaner blowing through the pipe. It forces a draft through the horizontal pipe (6"). Thus I do not need any expensive exhaust fan. These are early pics. Today I have added a piece of thin Aluminium sheet as a flashing at the exit end. Circular hole slightly less than 6" and beaten up to form a flange. The setup can be swinged away when cleaning the forge. As you can see the smoke stays in place and I have zero smoke in the shop when the vac is running. The pipe is not getting ery hot never above 200°C on the surface. I get some soot particles accumulating in the horizontal pipe so it should be swept occasionally lest it caches fire.

I am afraid that there is no other way to make sure than by testing. I BELIEVE = do not know that it would work if the joint is thin enough and the top plate not too thin.. At the moment of rebound of the hammer, the anvil is still under compression (The surface pushes the hammer upwards) A tension would mean that the anvil is elastic enough to throw off the top. Not an impossible thought but the contact surface is very large compared with the rest energy that the hammer imparted (energy in hammer moving down - energy in hammer moving up.) Further, it is a question of hammer weight versus top plate weight. It would not be a question of strength in the solder. It is a question of fatigue and the top could be heated back if a crack develops. Would the top plate harden if quenched from 400°F??

I could not post this to the forum. Please acknowledgat that you got it. To solder is to join two metal parts using a metal with lower melting point. Thus brazing is a soldering method using brass (thus brazing) or other copper containing metals. (It is literally called hardsoldering in German and Swedish). It used to be a very common procedure but perhaps not in much use by blacksmiths. Silver- and goldsmiths use it extensively today. Solder for electrical joints contains tin with addition of lead and sometimes other metals. The advantage is that it is unnecessary to heat the work piece to melting point. The weakness is - well - weakness. The joint should be as good fit as possible and even if the solder is weak, the joint will be strong in compression. The surfaces must be very clean and one has to start by "wetting" the surfaces with the solder. It is important to use some kind of flux. Electric solders contain flux in the core. It is also possible to use fluids containing tin and hydrochloric acid. The best is probably to use a paste that is put on thinly and heated. Such pastes are available commercially and are used by panel beaters who repair or build automotive bodies. I would start by shopping around for a solder with low melting point and a suitable paste. The manufacturer will have manuals how to use it. Get as much info from the manufacturer as you can. There are solders that can be used at so low temperatures as 350°F. I would get the surfaces to be joined very flat, clean and a good fit. Preferably by machining but it is possible to use a angle grinder. I would then cover the surfaces with a thin coat of solder to make sure the solder will "take" on the whole joint. Then I would heat the top part of the anvil and the new top to soldering temperature. I would then put on a pool of more solder on the top of the anvil so any unevenness will be evened out. Then I would put on the top and tap on it so that excessive solder is squeezed out. Make sure there is no movement when the solder sets. I have not done this myself - here anvils are usually solid steel castings. However, I think that it will work since you will be able to find tin-based solder (probably containing bismuth) that will melt at a temperature that will not draw the temper of the anvil or new top. That tin is weak is inconsequential since the joint surface is very large and nearly all load will be in compression. Today it worked ! Posting I mean

ALWAYS put nuts and bolts back as soon as the part they hold is off. - and take photos.

I would be a little worried about the rivet where the seat joins the armrest at the front end. It looks like a weak point. I would put in a short supporting piece there to relieve the stress concentration at the rivet hole. Just four inches of the same material ground to a taper at both ends and held by the same rivet. Maybe I worry unnecessary the chair is obviously OK in the pic.

I was unable to post the whole message so I have sent it separately as mail.

Le me be even more politically incorrect Why not solder a piece of fork lift tine (or other steel) onto it. One would not need to worry about tempering. If the solder is a solid but thin sheet between the steel and the Iron it would probably transmit the force from the steel to the iron.

OK I was wrong. The is fine because it means that I have learnt something new. Now remains the question: why was I wrong. This means a new thread since this is the forum of missed posts.

Post disappears Thomas, I agree entirely. It probably worked so well on my anvil because it is tied down to the stump. However, I could not have wedged in the piece of wood so easily if I had tried to do it against the base of the anvil. The fairly large stump I use, made it very easy ubable to post

YYF, It is a fact that when I fixed the anvil to the stump the ringing was significantly reduced. I was surprised how well it worked but there is a logical explanation. I do not tie down my 250 pound anvil and do not think I will but it is not London pattern and fairly silent. Thomas, It probably works but I found that fixing the heel gave enough effect. By Bullpin, do you mean that you tied down the heel to the stand? Of course one can tie the heel down by a bolt through the prichel hole or hardy hole down to the stand but then the hole is blocked. Glenn, This piece of wood killed ALL the ring.

I do not think that it matters if the strut is diagonal as long as it has a good grip on the heel and the stand. The important thing is to "hold" the heel - I assume that a 2x2 wood strut wedged down to the floor would work if the stand is narrow. What I try to suggest is that you test it in a primitive way like I did and the figure out how to implement it. What I show in the picture is a quick an dirty experiment to show that the principle works. This post got mislaid it is an answer to Johns-

Of ourse there is but that is beside the question of heat loss as function of anvil temperature.

This was originally an answer to Xavier about the ringing stand. I could not post it of course but in the middle of it I got this Idea------. What makes the sound is a piece vibrating and transmitting the vibrations to the air. Frosty is right. The setup is a gong. The vibrating parts that emit most of the sounds from an anvil are the horn(-s) and the heel. The longer and flatter the more sound. A London style anvil is a kind of double tuning fork. If the feet are securely bolted down more of the vibrations are led into the stand and the bottom half of he fork will dampen he top half. What you could do if you are adamant on keeping the flanges for upsetting purpose is to "bolt them down" by welding diagonal struts from the edge of the flange down to the bottom of the stand. That will prevent some of the vibrations. I do not think they need to be very strong. Pipe would be enough. Thinking about it, I would assume that one could dampen a London pattern by wedging a near vertical bar betwen the end of the heel and the stand.----- It is early Sunday morning and I am not yet dressed so I just rushed out to the shop half naked with an overcoat. No I did not shout heureka as Archimedes did. Picture one is my 35kg Kohlsva London pattern that I keep for the kids. The new stump is very slightly dished in the middle so it stands stably on four feet. As soon as I got the nails in it became considerably quieter. The nails hold down the feet and transmit the vibrations into the stump. The second picture shows the heureka idea. A piece of wood wedged in between the heel and the stump. THE RING IS GONE! Have I reinvented the wheel?? The piece of wood was lying around in the shop and this is an experiment. For a permanent setup I would tack weld something that can hold the strut but make the occasional removal possible. Try it out! It works!

That's the spirit. Gratulations Göte

Since I was unable to get my post through I start a new thread. Yes Thomas, steel becomes more brittle when cold and I would be careful about chisels but my anvil has a fair safety margin and I do not forge at very low temperatures. You probably refer to heat transfer by radiation which is the fourth power of temperature in degrees Kelvin but it is not the fourth power of the differential but the differential of the fourth power. Assuming heat transfer from 1000°C to +20° and -10° respectively, the difference is a tenth of a percent. Assuming heat transfer to 20°C the difference between 1000° and 900° respectively is 28 percent. (besides: radiation heat transfer is not only to the anvil but to the whole room) I rashly assumed that transfer between stock and anvil would be by conduction where transfer is directly proportional to the differential. The percentage changes for conduction would be 3 percent versus 10 percent. I have not thought about it but I am sure you are right that steel cools down mostly by radiation (unless we dip it in the slack tub). However, since the radiation is mainly influenced by the steel temperature, there is not much we can do about it. A shiny aluminium anvil might reduce the radiation but I doubt that it would be hard enough. Aluminium has a very low emission ratio and I know from personal experience that molten pure aluminium radiates surprisingly little heat. Your experience of blacksmithing is enormous compared to mine and I do not doubt what you say but heat transfer calculation and design has been a part of my education and my 50 years of professional engineering. I very much doubt that heat transfer between stock and anvil is what makes the difference you describe.

Yes steel becomes more brittle when cold and I would be careful about chisels but my anvil has a fair safety margin and I do not forge at very low temperatures. I am unable to submit my whole repy You probably refer to heat transfer by radiation which is the fourth power of temperature in degrees Kelvin but it is not the fourth power of the differential but the differential of the fourth power. Assuming heat transfer from 1000°C to +20° and -10° respectively, the difference is a tenth of a percent.

There is nothing for mice to eat in my shop so they will not try to be there. I do not heat my anvil. The steel I hit is about 1000° C I do not think it matters if the anvil is +20° or -10°. The temperature drop is approximately the same. Only 3% more in the winter. Like Frosty I carry water to and from the slack tub. Usually via garden hose from the hot water tap. It is difficult to heat the shop since the exhaust quickly removes all warm air with the smoke. Gloves, boots and a warm jacket helps before I start to heat up from within. I try to make sure I do not carry snow into the shop on (under) my boots. My shop is built for Swedish winters so it is snow-proof. The problem is quick temperature changes. If it has been cold and then suddenly gets warmer, there tends to be condensation on heavy items. I usually spray a thin layer of rust oil on the anvils. There is no need to remove it before using the anvil. The layer is so thin. Other tools are not a problem and I do nothing to them. The lathe is, however. I keep an old bed sheet over it and a 200W heater with thermostat below. The sheet stays at all times to avoid getting extra dust in the machinery. I have a sack of very dry charcoal and one of fairly dry coal in the shop and the coal does not freeze solid. I get some condensation on the underside of my tin roof but it seems to stay there. The only fluids I have in the shop are oils so I do nothing to them. I have an old champagne bottle standing in a window as a flower vase. I of course keep it empty of water if there is a risk of frost. My "chimney" is horizontal so no snow enters that way. Thank you for reminding me about freezing sharpening stones I will keep them in a heated place. Merry Christmas everyone Göte

I really do not know about this but would it not make sense to have a pitch back instead of solid when working thin metal like armour. On a knife it would not make sense. I have forgotten the correct English name for it. Is it "repousse"?? The mark would in that case be seen also on the back side. Göte

I think I answered the question on the Introduce Yourself threadsGöte

I consider myself a hobby blacksmith and have never given it a second thought and I am not going to let the question bother me much. To me a professional blacksmith is someone who makes his/her living from it. Regardless of the degree of skill. Skill is so relative. I am 100% better than my neighbour who has never pounded on hot iron but I am far far below the people who have been mentioned in earlier posts. My present project is some 120 10mm "tent pins" intended to hold down the bottom wire of the deer/boar fence I have erected. Is it easy for me? Yes I can make them in two heats; one for each end but I am lazy so I take two/three for the hook end. Am I skilful? Yes I am skilful enough for this project. My neighbour could not make them (unless I coached him). Could I compete with Brian Brazeal. No way. In such company I am not skilful. Since I make things that are necessary or at least useful in the garden, in the house or on the premises generally, I might be an "emergency blacksmith." I think the question should not be "am I a Blacksmith?" but rather: "What kind of blacksmith am I ?" Göte