mcraigl

Bob, Could you post pix of how you do it now? Something I've had on the back burner for quite a while and never quite gotten around to. Got a couple of "experiments" in the unfinished project drawer. Never really figured out how to make the handle/chisel transition really clean and strong.

I'm now heated, but wasn't before last winter. Started out using a scrap piece of steel warmed in the forge. Or if I knew I would be forging several days in a row I'd leave an old garage sale clothes iron on low on the face of the anvil. Probably not the best thing for my elec. bill, but kept the anvil nice. It's worth heating the anvil even if you're not worried about breaking it just for the simple fact that Thomas stated. If your anvil is cold, your piece of steel isn't going to be forgeable for more than a couple of seconds of contact.

I might actually try a darker background too. I've found that sometimes you can't overcome the contrast between a light and dark object, no matter how good the lighting is. Something to experiment with at any rate. If the brightness of the background is closer to the brighness of the object being photographed (though of a different color) more detail can be seen. Beautiful package JPH. Really, really nice, and I have a hard time believing that it will be waiting long for a new home.

Nice cutter you got there... Where in Wyoming are you going Tantrum? Big change from most anywhere in Cali.

The last parker shotgun was made in 1942, maybe they didnt have the technology back then? Many modern gunstocks are stabilized Ie. the proliferation of laminated and synthetic stocks...?

A couple of points to re-iterate, especially now that you've reduced your forge volume and blocked off the door and are more than likely getting plenty of heat. You didn't say where in washington you're at... goto the user control panel and put in your location. Sea level is different than 5000' elevation. Make sure your forge is running slightly rich. Look to have a little bit of "dragon's breath" (orange flame) coming from the opening. Not a lot, but a little bit. 10xx series steel can be a little bit "red-short". Ie. If you get them too hot, they will crumble on you when struck, and can be ruined even if not struck by getting them too hot. Forging temps in my gas forge with cable are a little short of the blinding white/yellow. Get some number 5 gas welding goggles so you can look in your forge without hurting your eyes. You'll see the flux dancing, when it reaches that temp, let it soak for just a minute, then come out and weld it. Remember to rotate your piece in the forge. I actually time it, every 30 seconds I rotate until I'm at an orange heat, then every 15 'til I've seen the flux dancing on all sides, then weld. My last billet was 8" of 1.25" cable. I welded it in three sections. Ie, I hit the metal about three overlapping blows, then back to the forge. since I was back in the forge before I was below a high orange heat, I only timed the rotations at 15 seconds on subsequent welding heats, that means I was coming back out ready to weld in one minute since I rotated 1/2 turn the first time, then 1/4 turn, then 1/2 turn. I think it actually speeds the process up overall to quickly come out, strick the three or four blows, then quickly back in. You need to have your brush at hand so that you don't waste time finding it etc. and end up being at a lower heat before you can get back to the forge. A half round bottom swage is nice, but the step of your anvil will work with angled blows. Good luck, ML

Marc, Lots of decent suggestions so far. You didn't tell us what your experience level is, or what tools you have available to you, etc. Do you have a hydraulic press or Power hammer? Etc. Purely by hand. I suggest that once you figure out what size slitter punch, that you make two identical ones. I'd go for H-13, or some other hot work steel then rotate. A-33 may be a good option, but not because it's "air hardening". It's NOT air hardening. It's water hardening, non-tempering steel. The nice thing about it, is that you can dunk it in cool water no matter what temp it is, and you don't have to temper it afterwards before going back to work with it. H-13 and no quench and rotate two identical punches, or A-33, and quench after every piece. Good luck and show us pix when you're done.

I don't really understand your position. If I have it right, you're saying that you'll put polyureathane on the outside of your wood to cover up the grain etc., where it WILL get scratched and allow moisture exchange, but you don't want wood that has been saturated with a poly like substance (though much thinner and thus less affecting the "feel" of the grain), which can never get scratched off, and thus never allow moisture exchange? Usually by the point in time of worrying about a finish for the handle, I've already got 20+ hours into a knife. The last thing I want to worry about is whether the wood will absorb moisture and swell when a customer/user takes it to the coast/humid environment, or that it will dry and crack when same person takes it then to a dry climate. Stabilized wood don't need a heavy coat of polyurethane on it to protect it, and thus in my mind actually retains the organic "feel" of wood better than plain wood protected with a surface finish. As said previously, feels a lot like wood with a nice tung oil finish on it to me.

I did have a bit of a preplan for the tang, I didn't want to short myself there, so I did some math and figured out where I needed to fuller in to leave myself enough material for the tang. This was the leftover piece from a billet that I'd already made one knife from and wanted to maximize the amount of blade I'd get in the end. That's as much as anything how I got to just going for it on the blade end. I forged in a distal taper, and I belive that is what caused the tapering reveal of the edge bevel, it got narrower as the blade got thinner. On other forging projects I do a fair amount of sketching and thinking before hand. It's just that on knives I've not built enough of them to have a solid expectation for proportion. I do know that a couple that I've made didn't look to good in the end because of the proportion of handle to blade. Thanks for the comments so far guys. ML

Danz, it may be only my 6th knife, but it's far from my first pattern weld. I've got a drawer full of billets that I've welded up over the past 4 years. did I say that? OMG, I can't believe I've been forging for 4 years now. Anyway, I've done a lot of forge work, and only recently really got interested in making knives. Part of that is, I did a few before I had a decent belt grinder and it didn't seem worth the time. I went ahead and built a real nice KMG style with my own improvements / design. Still need a few more tools etc., but I'm advanced enough in my overall skills that my instructor isn't having any problem with me branching into knives.

You guys are too kind. I did make some mistakes, but overall am pretty happy with how it looks. I have a couple of things to work on. One thing, I think I need a smaller diameter contact wheel. I'd like to be able to grind the guard to a smaller radius to make a more abrupt stop? As in, having the metal hanging down without wood where your finger goes. Not making much sense am I. Anyway, I do still want to watch one of the experts grind a blade just to see the motions. Kind of like watching Mark Aspery forge something. I learn new stuff every time I watch him now. Anyway, how does everyone feel about proportions etc. I didn't have a pre-determined shape/size for either the blade or the handle. I just kind of went for it and forged 'til it looked good, same with the grinding, just did what looked/felt good without a pre-determined plan. That's (I'm sure) what led to grinding into the epoxy up against the grip. Thanks for the comments all.

Well, here's a few pix of the knife I finished a couple of weeks ago after asking many questions etc. It is a 3 layer ladder pattern with cable for the outside two layers and L6 for the central layer. I think the pattern came out really cool, I'm calling it "Gator Skin". I did have a couple of "issues". that xxxx 36grit belt, don't give no mulligans, and so I ground into the epoxy a little bit right behind the guard. Glad I used the black dye with the acra-glass, it don't show too bad. Also, mostly a body mechanix thing, I had a hard time with the bevel grind near the tip on one side. I'd sure love to watch a couple of you experts actually at the wheel grinding, just to observe your body mechanix. Hint, hint. Youtube anyone? Please. Anyway, I haven't actually measured it, but my guess it about 9.5" overall, with about 4.5" of tha being blade. Full hidden tang, the pommel is a piece of 1/4" copper silver soldered to a peice of bronze, then drilled and tapped. Guard is copper, handle has brass spacers between everything, with the wood being ebony and purpleheart. Let me know what you think. Picasa Web Albums - Mike - 090831_knives#

Rich, what's the mammoth molar like to work with? How do you cut/shape it, and sand/grind/polish it? Any sort of post shaping finish, or is the stabilizer fully saturated throughout and all you gotta do is buff/polish? that thing is a real beauty.

I've made a few tools out of torsion bars of a Ford F-250 pick up truck. The material was about 1.25" dia. and we oil quenched and tempered to a straw. One of them is a handled round punch and it has done a lot of work for me with just the occasional touch up of the working end. Do a heat treat test on it to determine what you need to do before spending a bunch of effort making a tool. Other than that I say go for it.

If you are forced to heat/forge the struck end of the tooling... I've had good luck with running several pretty high heat tempering cycles on just the struck end. Take up to a good dull cherry (but still well below critical temp!), and slow cool in a bucket of vermiculite or similar. I do this three or so times, and end up with a tool that doesn't damage my hammer, and doesn't chip (so far anyway). Really, really like this material for hot cut chisels and punches. To answer your original question. For the working end of the tools heat to critical temp, let soak for a few minutes (longer for thicker sections), then air cool. If it's a tool that you want quite hard, then hold it in front of a fan. Wear eye protection while doing this, as the scale will pop off violently as the piece cools. As you mentioned tempering may or may not be required. If I recall correctly the tempering should be done at 900 to 1100 depending on the hardness you require. I do temper my hot cuts and punches mostly as I don't want them to break on the first use. After the first use particularly with punches, I don't worry, 'cause they get tempered in use. My .02$.

Though probably too short for some of the large blade y'all make, I'm using a .50 cal ammo can, and it works quite well for my needs. air/water tight seal on the lid, which can easily be replaced in case of fire. Large enough volume of quenchant to not over heat from ht'ing a couple of blades, but not so large I can't get it preheated by dipping a couple of red hot "lumps" in it.

Mark, Well done my friend. Would love to see it in person. I'm working one up right now and will hopefully be posting pix in the near future. ML

Rich, as others have said, that's a real beauty. I have a question for ya. On a "lower layer count" blade like that, do you end up with noticeable soft spots in the edge where the pure Ni is at? Or are they still thin enough in section as to be not noticeable? Just curious.

Devins, That just might work. Of course you're making the assumption that I'm so good as to have forged the parallel sides of my ricasso parallel with the centerline of the edge... One could always "pack" the tip end with some shim stock to get the edge in the center of your jig too. Might have to give something like that a try. Good idea.

Thanks everybody. Didn't realize that it would be at NAPA or the Farm stores. got both, as well as pet supply places.

Where would you look for mineral oil in quantities of around 10-15 gallons? Or... If mineral oil is a better quenching medium that vegy oil, about 20 gallons... Wifey bought herself a rocksaw and needs mineral oil for lubricant. I'm thinking it would be a bit expensive to dump that much unscented baby oil in there.

You're both confirming what I was feeling. My billet isn't nearly as purty as the beautiful pattern welding that you're doing John, but I still had a bunch of time in it. And it did jump the plunge a little bit. It's OK though as I'm pretty sure this blade suffered some bad grain growth and it didn't harden up nearly as well as I expected. So I'll be keeping it for myself. A first almost. Everything that's turned out nice has been given away. I think you pretty much described the process I went through to a "T". Rich, I vaguely remember that BP, and will be looking forward to their return. I'll look it up when they come back. I didn't get into the sharp cutty end of this work 'til after they went down. Here's the other issue... I forged the bevels, and forged a distal taper into the blade. Then when it came time to grind I remembered discussions about scribing the center line of the edge to give you a target to help keep the edge centered. I at first thought I'd just lay some shim stock next to the edge on a flat surface and then use it as a "fence" or guide to run the scriber along. Well, the distal taper made that impractical. So then I tried stacking a couple of peices of shim stock under the ricasso end of the shims but they were too flexible and needed to be supported all along. So I started stacking pieces under the tip end of the blade, but couldn't make the shim stock I had available add up to the required height to get the line scribed in the center of the edge. By then I was ready to say heck with scribing a line and just winged it. It ended up OK sort of, but am still interested in have a target to grind to. Or Datum as John put it. What do you guys do?

a little rust don't scare me. that's what abrasives are made for ain't it? I can always run them down to 15 microns or so if I need to...

Thanks for that Bigfoot! rusted out old handsaws are a pretty easy garage sale scrounge item, so that's just about as easy to source as new steel. Just leave the saw's original heat treat then? I know just from watching Brian work that the bend is crucial, kind of the built in, on the fly, adjustment. So a burnisher made out of o-1 would be a good gift for him too then? See, I want him to make me a real nice hand dovetailed box, that I want to build all the hardware for. Seems like a couple of nice hand made tools would be a good start at talking him into it....

GD85 (Grant) Good recovery bro. I've met and spoken with the other Grant (Sarver) on numerous occasions. I was able to inject tone and inflection along with a small understanding of his personality and humor types into his initial post and there was no hint of arrogance in it. I love the forums and email etc. as much as anyone, but I learned a big, hard lesson about 10 years ago. My dad and I had a misunderstanding over the internet that was just that. And it cost me 5 years of time with my pops. Anyway, the point being that I'm going to give you some advice even though you didn't ask for it. Don't take any post on a forum personal until it's been addressed to you personally. It'll help keep you off the blook pressure meds etc. And. Grant is a very good blacksmith, and a heck of a nice guy.