Ed Thomas

Apprentice: There is no need to weld when using collars. Collars are an architectural join, not just an afterthought to hide the metal bugger. Smitty: I find the smaller stuff to be more difficult, partly because there is less room for error. In round stock, especially that small, you'll want to have the contour of the staple match the contour of the two round rods. Use two rods or forge a scrap 1/2" x 1/4" to use as a pattern. Now you'll have the clip. Then you can heat the clip in the forge, put it on the anvil, hold it down with the two pieces to be collared, and squeeze the ends over with tongs or pliers. While still hot, tamp the ends down firmly and let it cool. The collar shrinks as it cools and draws tightly around the two pieces if the fit is good. If you continue to hammer while it is cooling, it can't draw tighter because you're forging it loose as it shrinks. If you've done a good job of it, the parts will be drawn tight together and as it shrinks you'll hear this rewarding little: "tink". The shrinkage isn't much, so you must have a good fit, and you must be quick. So, yes... practice a few times and you'll get it. The round stock doesn't collar very well because it wants to roll around inside. So you will have to anchor the round stock at other points somehow so it can't rotate or roll. Otherwise the collar is wasted. You also might considered hammering a slight flat spot on each round part where they butt together to discourage that rolling around. What are you making that requires forging that small???

Smitty: Can you home in on the part which gives you the trouble? I can walk you through different parts, but I doubt it would be any better than the tutorials you already have. In broad strokes: 1) Make a staple, shaped a lot like those metal staples used to hold electrical wiring. Or fence staples, except squared off instead of rounded. This should be a snug fit on three sides of the pieces to be collared, and enough left over to overlap. The ends should be tapered. 2) Hammer over each end of the collar. That's it. I almost always heat the ends with a torch tip before folding over because then the collar will shrink fit. Or you can heat the whole clip in the forge, put it in place, and hammer over the ends. The usual culprit in buggered up collars is over-hammering. The collar works because it is a proper fit BEFORE you install it. You can't correct a bad fit by banging on it. When the collar is in place (like a staple), hammer one side over and then the other. Resist the urge to hammer them down tight after they are already done. All that does is spread the collar and sabotage your fit. Just fold the ends over nicely and LEAVE IT ALONE. I found that practicing with scrap pieces helped tremendously. Make it simple. Take two equally sized small pieces such as two 1/2" square bars. Make a collar of 3/16" x 1/2". Stop IMMEDIATELY after firmly folding the two ends over. Test the fit. Is it loose? Maybe you can hammer the ends down a bit more. Try it. Is it tight? Now hammer it every which way, stopping and studying what happens as you go. You'll soon see the effects of hitting too much or not enough or the wrong place. Don't forget to support the back side of the collar somehow as you hammer over the ends. If you are having trouble shaping the collar, let me know. I just presume that you got that part covered from the tutorials.

This topic comes up a lot. So much of a shop construction depends on your use. I put up with a dirt floor for several years and will never do it again. It is not enough easier on my feet to justify the increased dust when it is dry, and rust when it is damp. When there is heavy stuff to move around, either machines or projects, gravel and dirt are pure aggravation. So what I did in my new construction was to pour a 6" slab for 3/4 of the shop. The remaining forging area has 3" or so of gravel with a drain tile from there and under the slab. I put two layers of plastic over that, and then another 3" or more of #63 gravel on top of that. That is the common size used in concrete. The gravel is not too bad on the feet, and the shop floor stays dry. I haven't lost anything in the gravel yet, but if it's an issue just take a magnet and pick it up. I always thought that the primary justification for gravel or dirt was that it was softer on the feet. Since everyone finds ways to pack it down until it's almost as good a concrete, this doesn't really make it much of an improvement. But Lee Sauder suggested to me that one other advantage is that the gravel floor is irregular, so your feet change positions as you work, rather than being locked into flat all the time. Apparently, the variety of positions can alleviate the onset of fatigue. That seems to be the case for me. Most professional shops that I've been in just go with concrete. For areas of prolonged standing, such as the forge and anvil, put down a hardwood platform of some sort. (It stinks much less than a rubber mat).

Dodge: Clogging the grinding wheel of itself does not turn it into a time bomb any more than dull cutters are of themselves hazardous. Cutters get dull, and grinding wheels get clogged. The important thing is to learn how to use and tune any tool. In most cases, all it takes to correct a clogged or dull grinding wheel is to dress it with a dressing tool. Just as a dulled cutting tool must be sharpened before use to be safe, the grinding wheel should be cleared of any glaze or clogging to be safe. USING the grinding wheel incorrectly is the problem. To suggest that a hand-held grinder rotating at 11,000 rpm is somehow safer puzzles me. The grinding wheels are just as apt to get clogged and just as apt to fragment from abuse as any bench grinder... perhaps more. If all the guards on bench grinders that came with it new were in place, MUCH less of the wheel is exposed than in a hand-held grinder anyway. I think better advice is: "Get a grinding wheel dresser... and learn to use it." and: "Get a some help or a book on using a grinder... and learn to use it." Every basic machinery textbook I've seen gives instruction on properly using a bench grinder.

Uri: Technically, you are using a belt "sander" rather than a grinder. The abrasive on a belt is not intended to wear away as in a grinding wheel. The grit is specifically selected for a given type of material. Wood particles sanded by a proper belt are abraded away and not trapped in the grit as easily as they are in the grinding wheel. So the abrasive remains exposed and sharp, unlike a grinding wheel.

Ron, The Practical Machinist board: Practical Machinist - manufacturing and machinist forum - home page has several forums, including one just for older machinery. Your mills would be welcome as pictures there. That board does not accept pictures directly. You have to post them somewhere on the internet and provide the link. Not difficult, but not quite obvious either. Since you already posted them here, you can link to the gallery from the machinist board. I use hide glue for the belts. That way if I need to change the belt or remove it, I apply a heat gun for a few seconds and the belt separates easily with no damage. Everything is SOOO much quieter and smoother when I got away from the alligator clips. I still use those on the power hammer because the belt is wide and synthetic, and wouldn't fit in the mill. But I might glue that one someday also. I'm not trained as a machinist, but have been learning a lot, sometimes out of necessity. I just made a roller bearing on my 1911 13" Southbend to fit my ???? (probably 1900 or earlier) Beaudry power hammer. To make steel wedges for fitting screens in a fireplace, I stuck 1" square bars in the vise of my 1943 Steptoe Shaper and and shaped them right up. The SB was free, and the 16" Steptoe (with auto downfeed and universal table) cost $100. I got a slotter (vertical shaper) for $250, and was "forced" to take a camel back drill press with it. A 1950 9J Gorton came for $600.... you get the idea. For less than the price of ONE power hammer, I have a fun and useful machine shop in which I can do just about everything I can imagine. Horizontal and vertical mills, shapers, and bandsaws, and two lathes. I go to the Practical Machinist and read the threads there to learn how to use these tools, and I bought about a dozen older text books and other references for dirt cheap to learn how the older machines were intended to be used. None of these tools exactly followed me home, being pretty heavy and all.... but they were worth the effort to go get at prices that were irresistable. I'd love to see your lathe pictures. Maybe start a new thread with that one?

Archie: That is very nice. I think you balanced things well and your piece has a good bit to say. Thanks for sharing!

Nolano: The wheel will not blow apart simply because it has wood imbedded in it. The problem arises from trying to force a gummed dull wheel to grind by jamming the steel hard into it. All bets are off whenever you use any tool inappropriately. Apprentice: Grinders are not rasps. They are consumables. In normal use, the grit on the surface of the wheel cuts the material, becomes dulled, and chips away. Each grinding wheel has a specific range of materials and applications for which is was made. The reason for using a grinder is to abrade HARD material. The wheel cannot refresh the sharp outer edge unless the worn abrasive is removed off by the material you are grinding, thereby exposing the next layer of sharp grit. So if you grind inappropriate material for a given wheel (aluminum, brass, bronze, wood, plastic, whatever) the outer grit is dulled but not removed. If the material is soft enough (aluminum, brass, bronze, wood, plastic, whatever) it melts slightly and adheres to the abrasive of the wheel, aggravating the problem. The standard grinding wheels that come with most new grinders are made for steels. You should never have to push the steel into the wheel very hard. The steel shouldn't even get THAT hot because the grit should be cutting the steel away rather than rubbing it off. As soon as you shove a chunk of wood into the grinding wheel, you gum up the entire outer layer. Now when you try to grind wood, it will just burn because there is no exposed cutting edges. And when you try to grind steel, it simply cannot do it. If you ever have to push steel hard into a grinder, it is dull and should be "dressed". Disregarding this is an abuse of the wheel and the grinder motor, and probably your eyeballs, fingers, teeth, etc.

metalmaster: Excellent score! I didn't think I needed a horizontal mill, but when a Hardinge dropped in my lap (shop, really), I was amazed at how often I used it. It paid for itself several times over on it's very first assist to a blacksmithing project. I used it to mill out the back pieces of some fancy chalkboard sign holders. The cutters are cheap and plentiful on ebay and easier to sharpen than the vertical cutters. The second mill actually looks pretty beefy for a home shop. VERY cool. For a blacksmithing shop, I think these type of older tools are awesome. We don't often need much precision, and they work hard. Did you ever see the directions on using a horizontal mill to scarf flat belt ends for a precision glue fit? It works like a champ. Here's the description and some pictures: http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Belt.txt http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Belt1.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Belt2.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Belt3.jpg I don't do it quite that way. I use a wide horizontal cutter and welding clamps, but the jig works well, and the principle is the same. Thanks for saving the old iron and sharing the pictures.

What the heck are those pansies doing with the OTHER four hours???!!!!

Here is an older discussion of the merits of different CAD programs: Welcome to the Manufacturing Forum: Basic CAD program Here is an entire forum dedicated to CAD/CAM: Welcome to the Manufacturing Forum: CAD / CAM If you use Linux, you can get several to try for free: LUnIx . . . CAD & Linux: Linux CAD Links Here is one for all platforms that you can play with for free: freeCAD: 3D CAD with Motion Simulation I do not endorse any of these... just offering you some directions for further exploration.

Oops.. just noticed that the double tube idea was already posted by Rich. Apologies for the duplicate.

The big problem with typical galvanized stovepipe isn't that you burn the zinc, but rather that the exhaust from coal has so much sulphur in it. The soot and smoke combines with moisture, making sulphuric acid and eats fairly rapidly through any thin zinc coating. Especially where it can collect at elbows and joints. If you can find stainless for your pipe, that is more resistent. I bought my latest chimney of 10" round stainless in 5' sections through McMaster Carr a bit over a year ago. Not cheap, but is holding up far better than any galvanized piping I'd used before. If you need it NOW and just want to pay the minimum to get a 10" pipe up and running, you can take a pair of smaller dimensioned pipe and interlock them. Five inch isn't as common in the local hardware stores here as 6" and 8", so I don't know if you'll be able to find 5" or not. Instead of rolling the sheet onto itself as expected, you connect a sheet to another sheet and roll that into a tube. Two 5" pipe sheets will make a 10" pipe. Since 12" pipe can draw almost half again as much as 10" pipe, you could always move up to a pair of 6" pipe if the 5" isn't available.

Chris: Thanks; that did it. I would like to hear a follow-up evaluation sometime. My suspicion is that they were able to develop significant pressure, but not real speed and I would be surprised if it didn't bind at the bottom. I've never seen a real single-lead flypress. Screw-press yes; but not 'fly' press.

Chris, That link isn't any good unless you are a member of NWBA, apparently.

RBrown: Have you looked at the classic Kinyon style air hammer plans? http://www.bookmasters.com/abana/plans.htm Phil Rosche in Summerville SC has built several, and even written articles for the Hammer's Blow on building one. His latest is smooth and hard-hitting, with exceptional control. It is almost certainly worth your time and gas to visit someone who has one you can look at and operate. For your first one, I'm not sure you want to re-invent the wheel.... er hammer.

Strine: I forgot about this link on the ABANA site: http://www.abana.org/downloads/education/threephase.pdf Pretty much a duplicate of other stuff already mentioned here, but it's there for the downloading.

In addition to the information here and the links provided, you might want to peruse the discussion group dedicated to this topic on the Practical Machinist. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/forum/3.html With almost 12,000 posts, you should be able to search and get an answer to anything you want to know. And you will get a pretty good reply to any questions in very short order. Home shop machinists deal with this issue as a matter of course. The cheapest and best performing machines are almost always 3 phase, so thousands of folks build their own routinely. I have a 5 hp RPC I bought from someone else. It will run my 5 hp 1945 metal shaper with no problem. That is because the power is the same; it's just the leg that the power shows up on that changes. The static converters aren't the same thing. You really should match them carefully to the machine. So even though they are cheaper, they aren't as flexible, and their performance can be erratic. In several tables I've read, the real output hp is about 2/3 the stated converter rating. (I'm guessing technically it is probably 70.7%?) RPC's are all over ebay. Just search on "Rotary Phase Converters". Or you can buy a kit from a place like this: http://www.rotaryphaseconverters.com/kits.htm An excellent description of three phase power is available here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_phase_power Within the paragraphs on phase converters, you can click on links to rotary and static converters and see examples with a writeup on each.

Viscosity, temperature, and composition all play a part in the cooling rate of an oil. If it is an issue in your heat-treating, perhaps you should consider oils designed specifically for oil quenching such as item numbers 3202K1 and 3202K7 in McMaster-Carr. These are the part numbers for a 5-gallon container of normal speed (28-second quench time) and high speed (10-second quench time) respectively. http://www.mcmaster.com/ You can see that the difference in cooling rate is significant. However, it is a moot point if you don't know your metal composition. Every metal type has a recommended heat-treating chart with guidelines for optimizing that alloy for a particular application. Guessing is usually futile. For example, here are two pages on M2 steel: http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/M2.asp http://www.pvsteel.com/docs/Tsb-118.pdf Here's an example of the real complexity involved in crystal transformation in heat-treating: http://sb2.epfl.ch/instituts/Gotthardt/Former/Bataillard/Research.html You can see that it is not trivial. If you are a blademaker or machinist, then you pick your alloy, and learn its particular heat-treating demands, including the best quenching composition and temperature. On this table, http://www.knives.com/heatreat.html you can see at the bottom the relative shock rate of different quenching mediums. It is interesting to note, that the agitation (how fast you move it around while quenching) has a very big impact on the cooling rate. You can see that according to this table, the shock rate of oil is about 1/3 that of water... all other things being equal. Having said all this, if you are a ornamental blacksmith making ordinary shop tools, then use a clean vegetable oil in a can with a drop-down lid and go forge something. The difference in quenching behavior between oils just isn't significant enough for us. A can like this: http://www.barcoproducts.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=650&DEPARTMENT_ID=111 with 5 gallons of vegetable oil has done me fine for years. The vegetable oil does not go bad. The lid keeps the bugs and mice out, and the fire in. The foot petal leaves your hands free.

DB: There is an excellent blacksmith group based near you: "Blacksmith Group Of the Potomac" (BGOP), with several hundred members. www.bgop.org There are several decent books out there, but if you can get to a BGOP meeting and talk with folks there you might be able to borrow or at least look at the books before you commit to a purchase. In my opinion, the two finest "How-to" books are: "A Blacksmith's Craft" by George Dixon http://www.artist-blacksmith.org/forge/articles/francis.htm It is the first of two volumes; the second is still in the works. There is no finer blacksmith in this country than George Dixon, and his ability to capture the essence of the skills in pictures and writing is the best there is. "The Artist Blacksmith" by Peter Parkinson http://www.blacksmithsjournal.com/view-EXTRBK-01AB.html Peter Parkinson is an artist in England and an accomplished blacksmith in his own right. His directions and guidance are the extraordinarily clear. So my recommendation is to download the COSIRA books as BT recommended, and look them over because they are free and darned good. Then go to the next BGOP meeting and see what they have for a library. Find out what members live near you. Finally, go to the National Cathedral and look at all the iron. I'm going up there this month to visit my son in DC and tour the phenomenal ironwork there again. There is no replacement for studying the real thing and then trying it out in your shop afterward. You get good in a hurry using the masters as inspiration. There are plenty of other books and I have lots of them. Those two are the best.

Rver-Gazer: Well, you certainly have helped generate the liveliest discussion in the intro section to date. For which I commend and thank you. I hope that you continue to pursue your blade-making endeavors with energy and integrity, and that you share with us your successes and failures. Since I'm not particularly interested in blade-making, I won't be much use. However, I can always hope your forging efforts expand to include ornamental ironwork, which we all know is FAR more rewarding. Ha. :)

Glenn: The INTERNET is rife with disinformation and hearsay. Although not exactly "rife", this board is not completely exempt. Any time that someone posts anything based on what someone else told them or that they read, it is hearsay. It is not what they themselves have experienced. Hearsay is not good or bad; it is just less reliable than going directly to the source, and invariably diluted. This is a forum, not an encyclopedia. Of course people, including myself, will post hearsay in an effort to be helpful. The best information is genuine first-hand experience. Probably followed by eye-witness. But clearly, when you have a discussion on the history of anvils when the posts are liberally sprinkled with "probably" and "no doubt" and "I would think", etc., it is hearsay. That doesn't make it wrong, but it has little value except conversational speculation. I happen to enjoy conversational speculation. Just read the post KNOWING that that's what it is. Disinformation is all over the place. You can see it in every post where people jump in to correct someone, such as right here in this original post. If we who know better from personal experience let someone post something that is in error, we are doing a disservice to all the people who search the net for information on blacksmithing. But that doesn't mean the post has to be eliminated. The whole discussion on power hammers: http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1039 is riddled with speculation and disinformation. If someone were to try to make an informed decision on buying a power hammer based on that discussion, they would be at best, confused, and at worst, in search of a hammer inappropriate to their needs. So what? It's an entertaining discussion by people learning to use their hammers. Someone surfing this board needs to pay attention to that, and not assume it's a master class in power hammers by the world's experts. If we were all absolutely right all the time and all knowing all the time, then we're probably done with this particular experience.

River-Gazer: Feel free to post here just as you are and say whatever you want, as long as you use language fit for a surfing child to read. The internet, even including this site, is rife with disinformation and hearsay, and you just have to wade carefully through it all. There is no way for you to know the quality and accuracy of what you read online, so take it all with a grain of salt. The more fantastic it sounds, the more suspicious you might want to be. If at all possible, meet with real, competent, blade-makers to help you sort out the legitimate from the fantasy. On this board, we are very fortunate to have Jim Hrisoulas (JPH) as a member. On his site: http://www.atar.com/ you can read a bit on his credentials. Consider buying one of his books. And if you can meet him in person, all the better. I doubt you can find a better resource for what you want to learn anywhere. Fortunately for most of us, natural selection does not apply or we wouldn't have survived this long. However, don't push your luck on this one. Try things out. I'd rather hear of your failed experiments in forging and discussion on ways to improve than any manner of talk about equipment. I'm not crazy about your forge arrangement. There are better (and cheaper) blowers than a wet-vac. There are lots of discussions on forges and firepots to peruse here and on other sites. See if you can find a good, operational forge doing work similar to what you wish to accomplish. Let us know where you live, and maybe we can steer you to another helpful blacksmith or bladesmith close enough to visit.

Woody: You have exactly described almost all older anvils... "a slab of tool steel on a secure mount". The base of the anvil was welded in some manner to provide a secure platform for a steel plate. If you can duplicate the efficiency of that support some other way, then you have a decent anvil. Now, of course, it is cheaper and easier to cast or forge the entire anvil from some alloy and heat treat it so that the surface is the hardest part. I am not sure what part of my post you misread to draw your conclusions from it.

Nick: This is the man you want to talk to: http://www.metalsmith.org/gall/latane/index.htm He is very accessible and friendly, and very devoted to his craft. There is no one better at what he does. His email address is at the bottom of that link.