Ed Thomas

irnsgrn: In most cases, the tool under the power hammer is called the same thing as it would be if hand struck. I have never heard a fuller called a side set, because a set tool of any sort is an entirely different tool than a fullering tool. In the "Open Die Forging Manual", published by the Forging Industry Asssociation, on page 72 , they have a clear description: "For the production of shafting, the forgesmith will require ... fullering bars to initiate setdowns or changes in section of the forging" On page 73, is an illustration of the various tooling, including the described fullering tool. I could find no mention of a "side set" to do the same or similar job, nor have I ever heard any power hammer user call a fullering tool a side set tool.

CC: There is a temptation to think of all American blacksmithing as primitive utilitarian stuff. Nothing could be further from the truth in the high population centers such as Philadelphia. Check out the Dover book: "Colonial Ironwork in Old Philadelphia" ISBN 0-486-40300-9 to see stuff that would be tough for many blacksmiths to be able to do today. As Irnsrgn noted, some of the better large city blacksmiths would have been highly skilled artisans trained in the best European tradition to do ornamental architectural ironwork and high-quality domestic wares. For the best contacts in your area, use the Blacksmith Guild of the Potomac (BGOP). Their web page is: http://www.bgop.org/ There are several blacksmiths that live there in Alexandria who will be more than happy to hook you up with a demo, and take you to their guild meetings. If you have any trouble, post here again and I'll put you in touch with specific people there.

Roger: Great fun, as usual. Thanks. One question: I can't tell from the picture if you have a bottom fuller to form the shoulder? That's very nice isolation with only a top tool, if there is no bottom tool.

Ted: Thanks for sharing your work. You make some VERY nice stuff. It is good to have you join us.

We all replied at the same time. Obviously, we all believe in making a test piece. :)

Jeff: Here are some ideas that may help... 1) Don't slit. Use a slot punch. Using the circumference of a hole, you can figure the circumference of a punch. For instance, the circumference of a 1/2" hole is pi * 1/2", or about 1.5". Use a slot punch that has that same circumference. So the circumference of a 1/8" wide slot punch would then be 1/8" + 1/8" + 5/8" + 5/8". In other words, use a 5/8" slot punch that is 1/8" thick. Instead of drifting the hole open, upset it to open. Only use the drift to bring it to final dimension. 2) The amount of material movement to do this can be calculated, but it is easier to just do a test piece. If you carefully mark the location of the slot punch with a center punch, and make very sure you have the slot punch right, the holes MUST form the same way each time. Measure the test piece before you punch, upset, and drift. Measure the distance between the holes before you make them. And then measure how much they move the material after you do the forging. If you do the same thing each time, the real pieces will inevitably move just as the test piece. Generally, a slot/upset/drift will make the material slightly shorter. 3) CENTER the slot punch very carefully and hit gently for the first blow or two until you are sure you are right in the middle. Make sure you have a completely even heat or the punch will wander to the hotter side even if you are centered. 4) When you open the hole by upsetting, make sure you evenly heat the hole. The hotter side will give first and you can wind up deforming the hole too badly to use if you don't correct early. 5) These are FORGED pickets. That means once you have the holes done this way, they should be very close. All you have to do is stretch or upset each picket somewhere other than the holes to bring them into near perfect alignment and length.

Ron: I don't know what you call it... maybe DOGGONIT But, yes, S-7 falls apart at too high a heat, and is very difficult to forge below orange. That doesn't leave much room. If you look here: Diehl Steel - S-7 Air Hardening tool Steel you can see that the recommended forging temperature range is only 150 degrees. In other words, it's probably better if you are starting with a piece fairly close to the dimensions you want or you will wear yourself out.

Thomas: I just saw oxy/propylene which seems even better than propane for performance. The specs support that. All that is required to change from acetylene is to change the actual tips; even the gage and hose can remain the same. I think propylene is less of an oxygen hog than propane. Since I have 3 large O2 bottles and only one medium acetylene, I might check into this. Not to hijack the thread too much -- does anybody here have any experience with propylene? I definitely agree with you about buying a used 225. They simply don't die. I see them at auctions all the time. I saw two of them for sale at the last SOFA Quad State for about $100. I really like my Miller 185 MIG welder, but I still think the tombstone is more versatile at a fraction of the cost. For small shop/home use, it simply can't be beat for price. They are everywhere. Mine came from a farm auction and it is does seem slightly better built than newer ones I've used (and repaired). The important thing to remember is that our answers in this section are for help in supporting your blacksmithing habit, and are not advice to start you on the road to being a professional welder. All bets are off if you leave the smithy with our suggestions! :)

Fabien: The Fairbanks has a hole in the same place. I've never seen anybody use it, but it does look cool. Maybe it provides a safe spot for mice to watch as you forge.

Andrew: Now you've heard lots of good opinions about welding equipment for welding. Since you posted this question in the Blacksmithin' Forum, I am going to assume your primary reason for exploring welders is for your forging shop. I've said before that in my estimation, the torch is more valuable to a blacksmith because it does more than cut and weld. With welding tips, you can provide localized heat to bend small parts and soften rivet heads for forging. This is often hard to do in a coal forge when the parts are inside of a larger structure such as a table, and is usually impossible in a gas forge. With the rosebud tip, you can heat larger pieces exactly where you need to do adjustments, bending and twisted. Controlling sheet metal is much easier with a torch than a forge. The torch is also very handy for warming a project after you've cleaned it all up before putting on a finish. I sometimes use the rosebud like a garden hose and sort of "wash" the project just enough to make a finish flow and dry onto it. Wherever you need a specific point of heat for working metal, the torch can usually provide it, making it a very useful complement to a coal or gas forge. My experience is ONLY with acetylene. If I were starting out with no gas torch set, I would certainly look at the other gas fuels. They are all much more stable fuels and the tanks are sometimes easier to own and/or get filled. Some are probably cheaper to operate. The biggest drawback is that I think none except acetylene weld very well or at all. But each gas choice requires some different torch gear, so it is worth exploring before you buy to see what suits your specific need. I will also pass on advice given to me that I ignored and you probably will also: Buy a good NEW set. Don't buy a cheap set, and don't buy a used one. By going cheap and used, I've spent enough money to buy two or three good new sets by now, trying to get what I wanted and get stuff that worked at all.

Andrew: Do NOT try to cut 1/2" from each side. When you don't cut all the way through, you can get uncontrolled spewing gouging with molten crap going everywhere if you don't know what you are doing. Just get a larger cutting tip for the same cutting torch body. They don't cost all that much. The Lincoln AC 225 "tombstone" or "buzzbox" has been around forever. It is sold nearly everywhere that welding stuff is sold, including Lowe's. On sale, it is usually just around $200. There are 5 of them on ebay right now for much less than $200, and almost every farm auction I've been to has a welder of some sort. The 225 was/is very popular for the price. You will need a 220V 5A outlet. The MIG is the LAST welder I'd get as a blacksmith. I have one, and it is handy, but it is the least flexible, the easiest to break, and the easiest to weld badly. If you learn to weld with a torch, then stick, TIG and MIG welding are a piece of cake.

Ron: In order: Yes; Don't know; Yes; No. If you watch an experienced blacksmith using tooling made from simple carbon steels, there is a near-dance that goes with working and quenching. You don't let the tool linger in the hot piece, but rather get on with it quickly and remove it frequently. For instance, if you punch a hole with a coil spring punch by hammering till it bottoms out on the anvil by feel, the punch could be at a soft red heat by that time and will mushroom in the bottom of the hole. Now it is stuck, and as you frantically try to get it out, the hot piece begins to cool making a nice shrink fit around your punch. By the time you surgically remove it, you will have to completely rework the punch before you can use it again. So punch quickly, cool quickly, and dip in some coal dust to make a lubricating barrier before putting it back in the hot work. Don't know anything about your Tungsten Bar. S-7 is great stuff for tooling. It is an air-hardening tool steel designed to take shock. All you have to do is forge it and let it cool in the air. There is more elaborate heat-treating if you want to, but that is sufficient for hand tools for blacksmiths. A 3/8" hole is not too small for slitting and drifting. I prefer to slot punch rather than slit, but either one is routine.

Ron: Coil springs are usually the easiest to get and the most convenient shape. The newer the spring, the better. Once a spring has been cycled a few million times, it can develop some stress fractures that will show up after you heat-treat and start using the tool. Most of the time, the coil springs can be simply hardened and tempered as water-hardening steel. They are fairly forgiving to work with, in other words. They don't really take heat all THAT well. You have to keep them cool as you work by working a bit and quenching the tool as you go along. Not a big deal, and second nature after awhile.

Fabien: I don't know about your specific hammer. The arrangement of yours is much more like the Little Giant or Fairbanks opposing coil springs than the leaf springs in the Beaudry hammers with which I am familiar. But in principle, the springs should always be in some tension. A mechanical power hammer works by throwing the weight up and down without a direct link to the frame. This prevents the impact of the hammer from repeatedly shocking the rest of the hammer. In order for this to work properly, the weight of the ram must be always under the control of the spring. If not, there will be at least one part of the travel where the spring is slack and the hammer can be unpredictable. Finding the right tension is part of tuning it for best performance. Here are a few links that aren't much direct help, but do show pictures of other spring arrangements if you rummage around: Little Giant Hammer- Nebraska City, NE Forging Hammer Sales and Service Network Wendy Gardner and Power Hammer The last one was to see if you were paying attention. :)

Have you checked to see if they will deliver? I can get deliver of a minimum of 3 tons pretty reasonably. It's nice to having someone show up with a dump truck and dump it in one pile right where I want it. Make sure it is pea coal. Anything much larger is going to be a chore breaking up every time you need coal for a fire. Make sure it is not stoker or furnace grade coal. That stuff is adequate, but not much fun to use. If you can verify that it is metallurgical grade of some sort, that would be nice. If you can't get the quality of it, try a modest amount before you commit to a large pile. A 5 gallon bucket holds about 35 to 40 pounds of coal. A day of forging for most home users in a decent-sized forge will take about that much. So a 1/2 ton of coal will probably last you at least 25 hard forging days. If you only forge on most weekends, that is close to a half year's worth. For occasional weekday forging and forging every weekend, you will still probably get three months out of a 1/2 ton. A 1/2 ton pickup should have no problem hauling 1/2 ton of coal. Just put a tarp or plastic on the bed if there are any holes, and put a tarp over it to keep the coal dust from annoying the other people on the road. Personally, I'd go get a 1/2 ton in my pickup and, if I liked it, try to get delivery of as much as I could afford and store.

Nothing has happened. It is still up and running as always.

Peyton: Aim to get up around 300 cfm if you can. I think below 200 cfm just doesn't have the oomph. Squirrel cage blowers are okay, but I prefer a paddle-wheel. My experience is that a motor speed of 1400 to 1700 with a 12" paddle blower is about optimal for a single forge. It is quiet and strong. I find compressor air to be noisy and extravagant and not anywhere near the control for forge operations. What you want is a steady pressure in a pipe the size of the hole in the bottom of the firepot. Not expanding, not constricting. Years ago, I had a hand-crank hooked up in a 'Y' gate with an electric blower to the forge, thinking I'd want to use the hand-crank every now and then at least. I never used it. So I disconnected it and never looked back. When you are doing serious forging for hours or all day, it seems pointless to add one more tiring task when electric blowers are available. As I've said before, you can get better air control with a simple slide gate and a decent air supply than you can with a manual blower. When I step away from the forge with the heated iron, I shut the gate and don't use any more fuel than with a hand crank. The only problem is that you said: "...for a portable application". I don't bother to use an electric blower for a demo forge for several reasons: 1) As often as not, there won't be an electric outlet handy. 2) I can usually count on at least one person available to turn the hand crank. 3) I typically won't be doing serious forging. 4) I have to do something with the hand crank blower since I don't use it in my shop.

If you don't like your rivets, just take them out and replace them. They are easy to remove. It looks to me as though you over-worked the rivets. If you set them cold, it is easy to work-harden or fatigue them. If you set them hot, did you use an O/A welding tip? If so, back off on the heat and bring them up more slowly, aiming the heat down where the rivet passes through the hole. Often, with such an intense local heat, the outside is burning before the inside is even very hot. Then set the rivet with a few well-place blows rather than pecking it to death. If you heated the rivets in the forge, good for you. But you have to be quick! It helps to warm up the piece so it doesn't suck all the heat out as soon as you insert the rivet. Again, don't peck at the rivet. Set it and be done. It is also easier to clean (file, brush, sand, etc) the pieces when they are separate than after you attach them.

Mike, that is a Fisher anvil. It is a good workhorse. The history is that Fisher wanted to produce anvils in the US at prices that competed with the imports. He perfected a method of casting iron onto a tool steel plate (rather than forge-welding a plate to a wrought base). The result is that Fisher anvils perform very well, but do not ring. The giveaway in your case is the bolt holes. Look for an eagle emblem on the side. Unless it is a contract anvil (made to be sold under another name or to the government), it almost invariably had an eagle cast into the side. There will probably be other cast numbers somewhere.

That is only true if you actually get rid of the marbles. If you simply remove them from the bag and put them somewhere else, then you really still have all your marbles and are not a blacksmith. Although I personally think one should not take shortcuts to success, It is much quicker to put the entire bag someplace safe in your shop. You will likely bury them and forget where they are within a very short time, effectively losing all your marbles. Then you will be a blacksmith, albeit a cheater. And of course that made me chase down this link: Lycos iQ | Where does the phrase ‘lost his marbles’ come from?

P180: You can get some hammers from several places. I personally like doing business with Blacksmith Supply. Here are their selections in raising hammers: Blacksmith Supply If that link doesn't work, just go to: Blacksmith Supply and follow the hammer link on the left. As far as being happy with the handle, that is not the hammer's fault. Eventually, you will have to shape and set your handle to suit you. The original handle on any hammer will almost always work loose after time, depending on your humidity changes and usage. Then when you ask here about putting a new handle in, you will get about 3,000 different replies on the best way to do that. I prefer to set mine in epoxy. Also, raising hammers are not very hard to make. Nobody knows better than you what you want in these specialty hammers, so you are more likely to shape it for your needs than an off-the-shelf hammer. Buy one or two and work with them for awhile. Then you can see what you want different in making your own. Good luck.

Daniel: You live about 20 miles from me. I think you are strange. However, you are in good company as there are several strange blacksmiths in our area. Welcome!

I have no trouble controlling air with either an electric or manual blower. Usually the problem is that people improperly size the blower or do not make a good gate. With a proper air gate, you can vary a good electric blower from a whisper to a blast just as easily as with a hand crank, and usually with more consistent results. You don't want holes any smaller than the ones you drilled, or they will clog too easily. The only purpose of a grate is to suspend the fire above the tuyere, not to block air flow. I have had better results cutting 3 long grooves in the plate rather than drilling holes, but they both work fine as long as you clear the clinker out from blocking the air every now and then. When you close your air gate, does it in fact block all or most of the air? If it leaks by, it doesn't take much to keep a fire going and if it leaks a lot, you'll consume your coal at a noticeable rate. Rivet forges are different than most shop forges in that they usually don't have a separate fire pot. So you have to mound the fire ABOVE the grate more to compensate. You might be consuming coal at a reasonable rate, but not feeding it in from the edges to a middle mound at a reasonable rate and amount. What size and type is your blower? What kind of gate are you using? What kind of coal? How are you building your fire? When you say you burn it quickly... do you have a different experience with a different forge to compare it with? All these questions and more... Your problem is usually easier to correct than not enough air, by the way. I'd say we're just going to be tuning what you already do to fix it.

Ludo, I think Gary identified the problem -- you must be using anthracite. I don't use the stuff, but expect you could keep it going better by building a deeper fire, and keeping the boundary pretty well insulated with more coal. Since good anthracite is nearly pure carbon, you probably don't have any clinker; just some ash. Is that what you see? If the "coal" does not ever burn away, you might have a very bad grade of anthracite coal that is practically slate. I tried some of that once and it is worthless for forging. You might have some luck occasionally blending some wood and charcoal with the fire even after it is started. Keep the fire mounded over; don't let it get hollow in the middle. Keep at least a trickle of air to it even when not in use for heating. This is what I'd do with anthracite; though as I said my experience with it is limited.

You can also get 3" stainless flex pipe from truck repair facilities. It is used to connect the exhaust.