Hilt and Hammer Workshop

This thread might help you a bit . http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/31866-just-how-much-for-a-post-vice-these-days/

I'll be on the road for a week,so i just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has encouraged me and given me ideas and guidance in this endeavour. Very much appreciated !

Those strap hinges on the doors are just fantastic ! Forged all by you,i presume?

I like it ! Looks exceedingly useful. I actually just finished up a cleaver myself,but I now blame you for making the mental conection of zombies and cleavers... I always though of them as being used for chopping up dead carcasses. Not undead ;) The Turk's head in (paracord?) look really spiffy too. And here's a queston that I was thinking about last weekend as i forged mine... what is the deal with the hole in the blade? Does it serve a purpose? I just put one because it's iconic to the style. Know of any practical reasons for it's existence?

Glad to see an affirmative post about my handle choice,so far it seems to be working very nicely. I've never even thought of pecan wood... is it difficult to find? It sounds a bit more exotic . My experience with mesquite doesn't corelate with yours. I have an exceedingly old piece of mesquite that I've been using for handles for a while now. Or perhaps it's not? It is hard,but seems to shape just fine ,with no ill effect on my tools. The grain pattern does get a bit crazy in places,but it's rather straight in general. Keep in mind this was taken from a very sizeable tree. Perhaps there are different varieties of mesquite?

If my understanding is correct,you aren't desiring to neccesarily make a blade,you are just interested in if it's possible. I've been involved in classical and historical fencing for eight years now,in addition to having an addiction to making blades. I don't like to assert my opinion in a absolute manner on these sorts of things ,but it is my belief that the short answer is no. Not the type of blade you are refering to. Yes, classic fencing foils were and have been made individually by blacksmiths ,as they were in use well before the 2oth century. However,that is a different blade than what you're asking about,as far as I can tell.What is used today in the Olympic sport fencing world is barely what I would deem to be a blade in the first place. It's so extremely thin and flexible ,forging one out would be close to impossible. The tempering is insane,and I'm sure the blade manufactures are using an extremely specific alloy for the product. With the "common" tools of your everyday blacksmith,it just isn't something that could be done .

The wood was recyled ,so I can't be possitive,but I'm fairly certain what I was working with was air-dried Red oak.

I can see why you object... I think simply that that handle dwarfs the blade considerably. It just ,as you said,doesn't flow proportionately. In my humble opinion,I think knives look best when the hilt profile is the same size or smaller than the blade itself. So i like your idea of shortening the handle.... maybe thinning it width wise as well. It would also seem to me that instead of an upwards angled hadnle,one with a downwards curve would better accentuate the lovely little blade :) But again,only my opinion.

Thanks for the replies so far . I really like Jim's idea of a twist demo,that sounds good. I imagine your post vise is free standing? The hot punch also sonds good,and I was thinking of bringing a few partially forged blades for sure. What about a split cross? I think if I brought a pre-cut one,and just domonstrated how it turns into the cross shape might be a neat demonstration. I understand the liability issue wiht having the anvil so close to people,but Isn't it hard for people to see if the anvil is in the background?

I agree,you definately didn't pay too much for it. Peter Wrights are some of the best out there. I have one that is nearly identical to yours,and I paid 325 $ for it,which is a bargian here in California,and it's not in a nice of shape as yours. I did some digging on the Wright history,and on an antiquated website, I found a discussion in which the topic was discussed in detail ( sorry,can't find the link) . I do remember that one fellow said that anvils like this one, with no "England" mark,and the word "Patent" were manufactured between 1852 and 1860. Whether that is absolute fact is up for debate , but maybe having a pre-civil war anvil is pretty special to me :)

Good evening,everyone :) Hope that none of you were victims of any cruel pranks this 1st day of April . I must say that such amusement is the furthest from my mind,as an important date is rapidly approaching. I've stepped out on a limb,so to speak,and I'll be having a booth at a craft show/public event for the very first time. I know that many of you are very experienced working with the public and selling your wares .I have never done this sort of thing before, and there are two areas that concern me specifically. 1. I have been told that I am expected (since this is a "learning" type of event) to demonstrate the craft a bit. I'll be using a small gas forge. I was wondering what sort of simple techniques that you guys would recomend for demonstration purposes,balancing simplicty with still being able to keep people interested. 2. Layout. I have a 10x10 ft space to work in. how should i position my forge and anvil for the best effect? Should the anvil be between me and the people watching? Also,if anyone has any tips on dealing with people,sales,etc. at a public event like this, i would be extremely appreciative to have you enlighten me,as I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Thanks for the great replies everyone. I ended up experimenting with the handles this last weekend. i used straight grained oak,because that's what I had. It doesn't sound like it's the best type of wood for handles,but we'll see how it holds up and performs. I did a 10 inch handle on a little 2lb hammer,and a 12 inch on my 3.3 lb crosspeen, both with an oval shape,abrubtly tapering to the head. I forged out a cleaver using both of them,and the lengths seem to work out just fine. I imagine the longer handles work well with heavier hammers ,since more momentum can be created by holding the handle farther back.

Well,the belts finally came ,so I cleaned and oiled the machine and tested it out. It works astoundingly well. I was actually able to grind a substantial blade bevel with it (80 grit ceramic) ,even though that's not what I'm going to use it for. . It does bog down if you force the material too much,but that's to be expected. It's very efficient at removing metal even so. I've been using it for finish grinding on blades and gaurds,sanding grips and handles,and putting initial edges on blades. It seems to have a thousand applications though,and will make my life much easer until I get a "proper" belt grinder. Thank you very much to everyone who contributed their insight and knowledge to help me get it running :)

It's an interesting idea. In reading your description ,there are a few issues that you may have to deal with if you try this method. First is the fact that you're making it out of pipe. Metal pipe is generally rather nasty material to work with in a situation where you want a point or an edge.You can compare it to rebar,it just isn't very high quality usually and has very little carbon content.. If you pound it out cold,it will be an utter failure,because the two sides that have been hammered together will split when you try and put a point on it. In order to be succesful,you'd need to forge-weld the pipe together on the end. Even if you can succesfully forge weld the blade portion of the arrow head into a solid piece,it's still the same steel. It won't harden or temper, so if the arrow strikes a target at a bad angle,the head will assuredly bend. I like your creative thinking, though. if you think you'd like to give it a try, you will most definately learn from the experience :) PS. Be careful what kind of pipe you use. Some pipes (like galvanized) have coatings on the steel that will produce toxic gases if you heat them up.

Attached to every hammer is a handle. Or at least that's how it's supposed to work.There are those instances when the two seperate and become a projectile weapon,but we'll ignore that.... I am planning on doing some hammer modifications . I've read some good threads on here about modifying the hammer head portion itself, but I couldn't find a whole lot about handles specifically. If I'm missing some older trheads on this topic,please point them out to me,I'd appreciate it. Anyways,here's the deal. I bought two hammers recently (cross pien and sledge) that suit me quite nicely at the forge. Except that they have icky,yellow fiber glass handles (shudder) . I'd like to replace them with wood handles ,for the purpose of both ergonomics and asthetics. I'm familiar with the technique of replacing handles,but I was wondering if anyone here would like to share their own personal preference for hammer handles themselves, such as the following : what type of wood do you prefer? What length of handle do you think is best and why? Should the hammer handle have a taper or remain the same thickness? There seems to be a huge variety,and I'd like to do the best job I can with the project. I'd love to hear some opinions.

I believe that this is a definate twin of my own 1908 Hay Budden . If you compare photos,they seem to be just about identical. The top arangement (two pritchel holes,hardy hole) is also matching. Buy it ! It's a wonderful anvil,you won't regret it . Also,check for a serial number on the base ,directly under the horn. Cheers !

Beautiful work ! I appreciate your excellent progress photos ,and it looks like you have some other neat projects in the works as well. I do like the simple,rustic end result. When you do the next one,will you create a more elaborate hilt for it? The inlay on the original blade suggests at least to me personally that the hilt may have been equally grand. Keep up the lovely craftsmanship!

I've never used a West,but I have a 146# Hay Budden, and I find it to be a nice workhorse,although I do prefer my Peter Wright. The heavier anvil,especially if it's in better shape, might be the one worth keeping (providing it's a good anvil) . Wouldn't you have a preference already as the owner ,or have you not really forged much on them?

VaughnT explains the issue very well. A lot of people just beggining in the craft tend think about makeshift anvils in terms of surface area. Mass is far,far more important. A sledge hammer is probably the easiest to obtain. Railroad track works really well too, and so do railroad couplers,if you are fortunate enough to locate either. One thing that won't be easy on a sledge hammer anvil is straightening out longer pieces of stock. You could mount the railroad plate as planned,and just use it for when you need a larger flat surface .

Brilliance ! Thank you for sharing that. One does appreciate a good sabotage instructional video before heading to bed <_<

They look pretty darn good for your first pair ! And you made them youself,that is the important part. Congrats on the new forge. It looks like you have a pretty nice setup... the possibilites are endless now !

I'm not sure the wire belongs . It has an overall "rough" and rustic appeal,but I think the wire detracts from the effect,or perhaps ruins it altogether. Just my opinion.... it's only your first try. Make another if you aren't thrilled with this one :)

Thanks for the HP / belt width relation,Owen. That's a very helpful fact. I definately realize the machine has limitations, but I'm sure it will help me out to some degree. I often have low spots in my blades when i polish,so hopefully I can use this grinder to at least get a nice even finish if I'm patient. I went ahead and ordered a few belts last night ,so whenever they arrive, I'll be sure to post the performance results. A final concern of mine is that one of the wheels seems a bit stiff. Am I correct to assume that all the wheels (aside from the one attached to the drive belt) should spin absolutely free? If so,I'll have to dissasemble and clean up the contacts. Should i leave bare metal,or apply a bit of grease?

In general, the problem doesn't make sense. Heat treatment takes place at critical temperature, which is "cherry red" (1400-1600F,roughly) . That's not anywhere hot enough to cause pitting in your blade. As other people have mentioned ,you are getting your blade way too hot,regardless of what forging set up you have. If you just keep a close eye on the blade, turning and moving it to get an even heat throughout, and then quench it immediately once it reaches correct heat,you shouldn't run into trouble. Also, do you at least do a rough grind/polish before you heat treat? It really helps alleviate scale accumulation ,and you'll find that when the blade is nice and smooth ,it is also very easy to remove whatever scale does end up forming.

Thank you for all the excellent advice,chaps. I got around to measuring for the belt today. I was slightly unsure,however,of the right measurements because of the tensioning arm. When ciladog mentions "bringing the spring loaded wheel under tension" should I be pressing it down completely,or just partially? If I push it down nearly to the max, the measurement is 42" . I assume this to be correct. But I wasn't sure if there was a "proper" belt tension to go for. Also,I was thinking of getting belts from here : http://www.supergrit.com/products/products_belts-ceramic.asp Anyone else have recommendations ? see suppplier list http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/151-knife-class-reference-material/ ?