Steve Sells

[steve sells] What you guys been doing lately, any blade work? happy results? problems ? [brucegodlesky] etching cable, lotsa cusswords [jeremy k] no blade work but I built a mini hydraulic press that would work good for knife makers and less that $130.00 to build if you have steel laying around [steve sells] : I have 2 slabs of rough cut fiddle back walnut drying under the Exhaust fan [markb] I've got one ready to quench and treat but afaid to screw it up [steve sells]why do you think you wil screw it up ? [markb] I haven't done it before [steve sells] wanna cover heat treat again ? [markb] Well i did one and got a soft tip [steve sells] I already wrote stickys YOU guys help Markb out,.... this chat should be a group effort. [markb] I've spent so much time a t file and sand [jeremy k] what steels is it? [markb] 1084 [steve sells] 1 good start [markb]obsessing on imperfections [jeremy k] is that a water or oil quench steel? [markb] oil [jeremy k]what color is a temper color for knives - like hammers - straw? [steve sells] that good for most. 325F to 350 is plenty for a small blade that temp barely shows color [markb] Do you think triple quench is necessary [steve sells] water for 1050 or lower is ok [steve sells] I always double temper, [markb] room temp between? [steve sells] over night in freezer between, just top help retained austinite brealk into martensite [steve sells] room is fine Mark and I are far enough north to let it cool [markb] Thanks simple first [steve sells] people like Rich Hale dont need a H/T oven they just wave the bvlade out the window and it heats up [markb] Too hot down there [steve sells] yup no snow either over there, weird place to live [jeremy k] I think Rich has been having his cryo treated [steve sells] yes but he is using high tech Stainless also [steve sells] I low tech cryro 5160 [jeremy k] Steve is the oven the safest bet on tempering for consistency? [steve sells] steel tube, cruched dry ice packed around the blade in the pipe, cover in acitone I get -170 [steve sells] I use wife kitchen oven for blades up to 26 inches with tang [jeremy k] 2-3 hrs? [steve sells] 1 to 2, I turn on oven to get to temp before hardening [jeremy k] are the temp knobs fairly accurate? [steve sells] after the oil quench, I wipe it off ( mainly to keep wife from killing me) and place in over before it can cool below the 400F [steve sells] Dont trust them I use candy thermometer [jeremy k] ahh [steve sells] after 1 hour, I let cool in over, then place in House freezer over night then 1 more hour the next night, the retained Austine will convert to untempered martensite over time,. the cooling speeds this time up [jeremy k] correct me - could you heat up till oil burns off a few times - is that a close temp - burning oil? [steve sells] its not real cryo, true cryo needs a lot colder than this lol [steve sells] oil for tempering ? I use oil at 450F for Austempering large blades so lower for normal tempering is safe [jeremy k] ?? can't remember were I heard something about burning the oil off [steve sells] IF you know what temp the oil burns, that can be a temp indiactor [steve sells]if oils, and mixes, have dif flash points [jeremy k] 1rue they do [steve sells] mine burns at a little over 500F, I found out hard way [jeremy k] that doesn't sound good [steve sells] about the tempering Some people say it must come to room temp before tempering. thats only when they temper once, to help get some retained austenite to convert nefore temper, BUT I have had blades crack from getting too cold and not tempering soon enough so I temper first, at low temp 350 or so, to relax stress from the quench and temper some of the steel. after the freezer I temper again at desired temp for the target Hardness. normally 375 to 400 for hand knives, this also tempers the martensite that formed during my cold rest period by tempering right after the quench I have not had a broken blade like I used to get by waiting till it cooled a bit first [jeremy k] I know a few that have broken blades by not tempering them soon enough - before dropping them [steve sells] dropping un tempered steel >? OUCH I made 3 nice boots knives, from what should have been a left hand blade for a fencer [jeremy k] no me - someone I know - I probably would though if I made one [steve sells] it was a 15 inch blade, after getting bumped (by me) becauwe 3 boot knives,and some small pieces I was able to salvage something from it [jeremy k] inside every knife is a smaller one crying to get out [steve sells] lol if ya hear it cry during quench>? forget it lol [jeremy k] high pitched cry? [steve sells] pm: like a off key song the ends in a higher pitch crack, There are many way to temper some use a hot plate, some heat a bar of steel.. I am talking simple tempering small blades don't usually need differential tempering [m_brothers] with differential tempering, how soft do you really want the spine to be? [steve sells] if ya even done oil quench steel in water, you have heard this sound [m_brothers] I've heard of people putting the edge of their knives in water, and using a blow torch to heat the spine to a dull red, is that to soft? like mushrooming from use over the years? [m_brothers] i've heard and witnessed it steve [steve sells] why heat spine to red ? most I have done is purple spine for a sword, cutting edge in water to keep cool [m_brothers] it's super soft then, but i was just wondering why you would do that instead of drawing like a blue or purple for a spine [steve sells] to red you are basically converting the back to austenite, I get asked to cover advanced things, but too many complain at mid level topics being over their heads.. [steve sells] actually this is basic heat treating anyone SHOULD know to make blades not advanced at all I have tried to build up and post notes for later reference to help people follow [jeremy k] I don't do enough heat treating so it's always good to hear again fro me [steve sells] MARK,, one reason your tip may be soft after H/T if you over heat is causes other problems. heat from the spine, and hear the tip/edges last to keep from over heating [markb] why? [steve sells] the heat will travel from back to the edge anyway, and the thinner edge heats faster than thick spine. over heating causes large grain growth, and to hot before quench also casues plate rather than lathe forms of martensite [markb] I put that one in the forge , mistake [steve sells] lathe is much more brittle too,

If you don't think any of these apply, you should stop smithing and read a LOT more before you continue. Most ALL you list is dangerous, if you don't believe that they can be, you are delusional, and WILL get hurt. Please work safe.

Admital does not, and NEVER has carried any L-6. What they do sell is a 8670M with only half the alloy amounts of L6. They do list on the front page, but due to legal action have finally had to published that they only sell the 8670M in the price listing. I found out the hard way when they surprised me a few years ago when I first ordered the L-6 but that was not what they sent me it was clearly labeled 9670m, its a nice steel but not what ordered and paid for. Be careful ordering from them.

1/8 x 1 x 36 $21 1/16 x 1 x 36 $10.50 3/16 x 1.5 x 36 $35 this was last weeks prices when I bought mine

you should look, and post this in our tailgating section. Welcome to I Forge Iron.

I never said forge welding was hard, I said forge welding a billet large enough for your hammer would be hard. I don't make hammers, I make billets for my blades, and for others to make things, Ask Rthibeau for the photo, my last hammer billet I made was for him to use. as I was warned by JPH here, making a 2x2 billet is a lot different than a 1.5 x 1.5 inch billet, he was correct .

take my word for it, its gonna take a lot more than most people guess to Forge weld up a large hammer billet...I just finished one...

I merged these 2 threads to avoid confusion. Since you just informed us they are the same thread anyway :D

NExt time you are in the area, rather than Coffee, lets hit my shop, I will get ya welding in a hour or less. As motivation, and risk of embarrassment, I can get my apprentices to weld. Actually we can still have coffee, I just bought a new coffee pot.

A36 not good for tools as too many unknowns thing in the mix. Its a structural rating not a alloy statement, It could have enough chrome and things to air harden, then Supprize. But the idea of using mild is a solid one for this.

We try to keep factual here, Bigwill. This has been covered many times in the forums, and our sticky's here. In summary, there is 30 points of carbon at best to a HC rr spike, they will never get hard enough to make a good blade, the edge will never hold up to much use, they are merely a novelty. the HC is a relative term.

not exactly true. While I have posted many times about carbon migration, there are other elements to steel that do not migrate in the heat and time allowed in forge welding. So there is still differences in the layers that do work together, OR cause problems, one reason we must take care with which alloys we use. So while carbon variations are myth, the Chrome, Vanadium or Nickel are not.

I see the handle, but not much of the blade. More pics please? lets see the steel

what chart? also as far as photon emissions, your theory is not exactly correct, as glowing a dull red, is still a photon emission, but not enough excitement to weld by, but you do understand the general idea.

but that ;link says rated for 1832F? That is a little low for a welding gasser How do I compare this to other products? I dont know what these numbers compare to. yo said it melts at 2100F But being covers by some top coat our gasser may get hotter, but will that insulation "feel" that heat level?

I was at a wedding last fall, saw the Dr that has my first knife I sold... $20... I offered to buy it back at a premium.

See the knife sticky's Knife Making - Knife stickies here at iForge it explains how carbon and heat treating make steel hard, or not.

4140 not the best choice in a blade. Plus heat treating issues when mixed with 10 series. may pull apart due to different expansion coefficients.

Make your billet however wide as your stock is, if its too narrow, widen it. I have some Questions for you. Have you even made a knife before? Have you ever forge welded before? How much material loss have you had? Are you using the same steels? some will scale more than others.

Welcome to I Forge Iron, I broke your post off of the other thread into its own post, so people can locate topics easier. I doubt any casters would have found it in the knife section as a hi-jack to an axe post. :)

Knee mail on its way, Sorry about your mom Art.

AU92 are close to the Rose-1 I have added to my Bifocals.

Traditional Japanese swords are cool but they started with junk steels. The repeated folding, aka Forge welding, was like working out wrought iron, and for the same reasons. to work some junk out of the metal in an attempt to get usable steel. Don't even bother trying to get black pipe into "good steel" as it wont happen, there is a lot more to it that just roasting iron in carbon. Just buy good steel to start with. Since I am wearing my asbestos suit, Let the flames begin.:D

first choice flap disks on the hand held grinder, get it smooth, looks good enough to use for me I would only remove the deeper cuts! Welcome to I Forge Iron.

wire brushes are $2 or less each at Harbor Freight.