Mikey98118

Nice drawing, John! It's interesting that you chose to show the sausage stuffing tube, which is being used for a funnel, inside of the mixing tube. In fact, I mount them inside or outside, depending strictly on convenience; this is because of the tube wall's thinness and the strong mixture feed inside the mixing tube with these particular burners. The longer you wait the more you'll have to work with. John, on the other hand, feels differently

Yes, but not as well. Also, by upping the amount of Veegum from3.5 % to 5% the formula turns from a refractory into a suitable thin coating material.

Numerous linear and jet-ejector style burners have found their "sweet spot" to be 1/4 to 3/8" betwen the end of the MIG tip and the beginning of the mixing tube, or small opening on a reducer. Side holes in cross pipes ended up considerably further away, but then holes and tubular bores are apples and oranges.

UV burns faster and deeper than the same amount of IR, but IR will get you there. One more reason to mount a movable baffle wall, or brick wall near the forge's exhaust, and move it down to minimal opening for the work.

Look up K26 bricks on eBay; solve all your problems at once.

So he will finally get prosecuted for criminal stupidity? How rare.

The sausage stuffing tube you chose is nearly identical to one of the LEM Product's SST, I was referring to during our casting group discussion. Since they may not be completely identical, I just ordered the SST you prefer, and we will be able to continue when both of us have our tubes. In the meantime, I am typing up instructions based on one of them and will be able to post them as soon as the SST arrives, can be accurately measured, and any needed changes in the instructions can be made.

John, I am planning to use an aluminum spacer tube. However, the SST you've choosen is very similar to the LEM Product SST I originally planned to use, and in accordance with our discussion during the casting group's meeting. I just ordered one of the SST you prefer, so that what I suggest will match up with your parts, so order yours now too.

3/4” Vortex burner with SST for 2” sausage covers Four years ago, when I started building vortex burners, the very large stainless steel sausage stuffing tube this burner uses was not available, and so I used a Metrokane thick wall wine funnel; it will still make the best burner (less back pressure at the funnel/fan interface), but is considerably more work than this one. If you choose to build your 3/4” burner with this part(recommended), then buy it now, so that you can closely measure its dimensions before purchasing any of the tubing parts, or the fan:

Safety Any powered burner design can suffer a back-fire through the fan, if you block its flame path at the source (ex. allowing the burner to fall over on its flame nozzle during operation); these burners will do so; instantly and every last time! Secure the burner in position before running it. Place your burner opening sufficiently high above a casting furnace’s floor to keep it clear of any spilled metal in case of crucible failure. Place burner openings out of the direct path of heating materials in forges. It is necessary to initiate fuel gas flow first, and then ignite the fuel/air mixture from the burner’s forward end (in front of the flame nozzle), BEFORE STARTING THE FAN MOTOR on Vortex burners; these are a combination of natural induction and fan powered burner. Initiating the flame nozzle dynamics first will strengthen the establishment of mixture flow direction; greatly reducing the chance of reversing fuel gas flow from backpressure at the funnel/fan interface, after the fan is turned on. Fans installed on this burner series generate increased back pressure at the funnel opening, because they are designed to create swirl, rather than to create forward thrust. If the normal direction of mixture flow isn’t already established, some fuel gas can accumulate at the fan to funnel joint, instead of all the gas being pushed into the mixing tube. Note: Fuel ignition follows starting the fan on standard forced-air burner designs, because fuel in such systems can collect in the combustion area of heating equipment, leading to minor explosions, when it’s ignited; so the fan is started first with those burners, to reduce this possibility. But, on Vortex burners, the fuel air mixture has no chance to collect in the combustion chamber with the burner lit, nor will starting a weak impeller fan blow out the burner’s flame. Close the gas feed, but keep the fan running, during Vortex burner shutdown; then it is best to remove the burner from your forge or furnace, if it is positioned facing downward. Furthermore, the burners fan should be left running, until your burner is completely cooled down and ready to be stored, even if it is removed from the heating equipment. Note: If you don’t already know it, “chimney effect” is caused by a reverse air flow in some heating equipment, once its burner is shut down. What happens is that, when a burner port is placed near the top of a horizontal gas forge, super-heated gases travel up and out of the burner port after shut down because of buoyancy, while cooler air enters into the forge or casting furnace through the exhaust opening to replace them; thus overheating any burner that can’t be completely sealed. Even if the burner could be sealed, delicate fan parts would get too hot to survive. Caution: The larger the burner the greater the danger from backpressure against the fan, because of the increased air pressure needed to power the vortex. Therefore, blade to mixing tube diameters, funnel shapes, and fan strengths that are safe enough on small burners are not necessarily acceptable on larger burners. You need to keep this in mind when tempted to depart from construction recommendations, or in substituting parts. Running a larger fan than recommended for a given mixing tube diameter (greater than a three to one ratio) increases back pressure beyond acceptable levels, thus escalating the danger from ignoring the safety procedures given above. The smaller the burner the less sensitive it will be to funnel shape in creating back pressure through the fan. Therefore, the larger the burner the longer its funnel should be. Caution: Even when back pressure is kept to a safe minimum, some of the fuel/air mixture can escape at the funnel to fan interface if sealant, such as thread locker, isn’t provided at this joint. It then will be drawn into the fan, to create a flashback hazard. Any burner can be snuffed out if it is placed in a vertical-down position, facing at a steep enough angle; what causes this is spent exhaust gases (which rise through buoyancy/displacement), and enter the burner’s air intake. To most safely install Vortex burners in horizontal tube forges, they should be aimed with the flame nozzle angling somewhat upward. If installed facing down, a Vortex burner’s plastic fan can easily be overheated by the chimney effect, when the burner isn’t running. Vortex burners used in any position other than the horizontal need ball-bearing axial fans. Motors with sleeve bearings are only meant to run in a horizontally placed burner, so that their bearings are positioned vertically; otherwise their lubricating oil will seep out, letting the bearings run dry and seize up. It isn’t legal anywhere in the U.S. to leave combustion equipment running unattended unless it is fully fitted out with an automatic fuel shut off system, which has first been inspected and approved by your local fire department.

Introduction to Vortex Burners To begin with, let’s clarify just what is meant by the term vortex burner; technically it’s any burner that swirls the fuel/air mixture at some point; so technically, nearly every stable fuel/air burner would qualify—even some Bunsen burners. Often, the term vortex burner is granted to those that swirl the flames they make. But, causing a flame to swirl happens way too late in the mixing process to provide more than minimal benefits; applied this way the title is complete hype. Forcing an air stream directly at the funnel wall of a linear burner will create a weak vortical flow, but at the cost of also increasing the air/gas mixture pressure through the passage. The special fans on “”V” burners, are used to power up an otherwise passive vortex by creating lateral spin—not forward push—at the funnel entrance; thus, all the energy is spent strengthening vortical flow down the funnel transit, which then increases incoming air flow, while dropping incoming air pressure, by speeding up the gas/air mixture’s forward velocity and spin rate, all the way through the burner to the flame nozzle, where pressure behind the flame is reduced still further. Positive pressure in the burner’s gas/air mixture severely limits how much a flame can be strengthened. So powering up vortical flow, instead of pushing the air, results in much larger and faster flames than are attainable with a standard forced air burner. Every part of a Vortex burner is designed either to enhance, or benefit from, the principles of vortical flow; so the name is actually relevant—not just something that sounds impressive. Once you construct an air/fuel burner that can produce a neutral compact flame (near to total combustion in the primary wave front) from LPG fuels, it would seem that it’s the most you're ever going to achieve. So, if the safety cautions to follow make you nervous, why would you go on to build this kind of burner? The truth is that performance involves more than complete and compact combustion. Further improvements can still be made, like: Much greater flame variance (turn-down range); more powerful flames from smaller burners; and the ability to simply change out flame nozzle diameters on a single burner, rather than switching between two or three separate burner sizes; all of these advantages are very much missing in all other fuel/air burners, including high performance jet-ejector tube types (mine). Vortex burners are quieter than other turbulent flame burners for the same reason that their flames are incredibly stable; because of more thorough air/fuel mixing. I believe they come as close to the silence of linear flames as turbulent flames can; these burners provide the same stable performance on the smallest burner you can construct. This enables miniature burner sizes (1/4” and under) with turn-down ranges, from a perfect flame, to be increased by an order of magnitude! When it comes to jumbo size burners (1-1/2” and larger) that extra flame stability happens to be very comforting; if you’ve ever run one of those monsters, than you know just how desirable a smoother flame is. Note: flame noise is generated by flame variance from millisecond to millisecond during combustion; such variance is mainly the product of imperfect fuel/air mixing; improved mixing results in increased flame stability, and therefore a reduction in flame noise. It should be noted that, since this is the first text on Vortex burners, it can’t possibly be “the last word” on this subject; that will take several years and thousands of burner builds to establish. For instance, I’ve concluded that a 3:1 impeller blade to mixing tube diameter is the highest ratio that can be safely employed, but what is the best ratio; or, the best ratio for each burner size and fan power? What are the absolute best proportions on a cone shape? What motor and control refinements are optimums for each funnel size and shape? Such particulars can only be established with feedback from many people over several years.

My first burners were all 3/4" Reil burners with the Bordeaux method of trapping their gas pipes; they had room enough for MIG tips; if they hadn't I would simply have used shorter tips. Your burners are 1" which will need larger, and therefore longer reducers; how would they not have room for the tips?

A three to one reduction ratio is a good goal to reach for; your reducer doesn't have to achieve it to create a strong linear burner, but I don't recommend missing it by a country mile either

The Riel burner used a 1-1/2" to 3/4" reducer fitting to create air swirl into its mixing tube. My MIG tip version, which he hardily endorsed, uped the reducer size to 2" to 3/4". How does this compare to your reducer?

Another way to come up with .028" jet holes for more perfect 1/2" burners Annealed copper refrigeration tube is designed to easily bend without collapsing; it comes in several sizes; a few standard examples are: 0.071" outside diameter, with 0.028" inside diameter refrigeration tube will fit within a 1/8” tube (with a little drilling), which will then fit within a 3/16” tube (for 1/2” burners). A number #49drill bit leaves a .073” hole that is perfect for silver soldering a short length of the tubing into. A number #50 drill bit leaves a .070” hole that only needs one-thousandth of an inch sanded away to make a perfect interference fit into a MIG contact tip, etc.

An entire stinkin' hour?! Really tough going there, lad.

I looked at the video and, while the threaded plug is certainly no breakthrough, it is a useable form of gas assembly saddle for linear burners; it almost comes up to deserving honorable mention.

Jacob, The point isn't how sharp you were before, but where you get the information you need before opening your wallet. Don't look back; keep a sharp eye out forward, where the brick walls and trees are coming at you from

Okay, the first two photos show that you have learned to build and tune the burner. All that happens when this kind of hard flame is contained in a forge or furnace is that the flame becomes more refined. Once the equipment heats up to incandescent temperatures the flame will appear much lighter; this is due to the background light from the equipment interior's surfaces. If you were to take the burner out into the open its flame would appear just the same tint of blue as before the forge heated up. What is going on in the third photo is softening of the flame; I assume from a little de-tuning? Pushed the nozzle forward too much perhaps?

One thing that jumps out at me without looking any further is the wimpy reducer fittings your burners have. A naturally aspirated linear burner should have a three to one reduction ratio on its pipe reducer. There is no use looking for other glitches until you change this.

Reading the Forges 101 thread will clue you in on the whys and hows of forge design so that you have a clue what you are looking at; including whether its price tag represents real value or you are being suckered BIG TIME. And if you don't think most commercial forges are sucker deals...well, that just proves you haven't read the thread, doesn't it?

I looked at your drawing of a proposed gas jet, and it looks quite good to me; how it actually turns out is up to experiment. Larry Zoeller first changed out my original schedule #40 1/8" gas pipe for a schedule #80 pipe. It worked so much better that he no longer needed 1-1/2" bores from long MIG tips. For the first time short MIG tips worked fine; the difference was in the heavier pipe's smaller inside diameter, which provided a much smoother gas flow at the transition from gas pipe to gas jet. So, I feel confident that you are on the right track. As to tuning your burner's flame, you need to pay attention to how much overhang you allow between the end of the mixing tube and the end of the flame nozzle. The longer the distance the softer the flame. The shorter the distance the harder the flame. Photo one is a hard flame. You only need to shorten the overhang until the flames becomes unstable, and then add a little distance to come up with a stable hard flame

Justin, It would probably be easier to use a hole saw to make your own washer, although there are specialty washers that would do; the problem is time lost in trying to search them out. Once you have washers you need to keep them in place at the optimal height above the forge top, which can be done with spacers, or the washers can be held in place with a brazed nut and screw. Or you can leave the burners against the forge top, and add holes until just enough secondary air is allowed into the forge to completely combust the flame. Ceramic fiber should only be considered for testing, because it provides a source of toxic dust you don't want, and has to be handled every time you work on a burner.

3"Bosch angle grinder Here is another choice in 3" angle grinders; it is also overpriced compared to the Chinese imports, but is at least is a manufacturer well known for top quality. One of its advantages is that its motor is in line with the cutting and grinding discs it swings. Thus no power is lost to gearing, and no high-speed gear whine is created either: Mod note: Ebay link removed

Let me know before coming and I will make a real effort to come to one.