anyone heat treat or temper with Tempilstiks?

[knifedude1999]

Anyone heat treat or temper with Tempilstiks?

or use them for anything?  :D

I thought they could be nice when getting the hang of new steels.

 

thx in advance

[Herb Upham]

I use them to determine preheat temperature prior to welding some materials, but not for heat treating. For common steels, such as 5160 (common spring steel) I do eveythnig by eye. If making an S5 or S7 tool I use a temperature controlled oven to harden and temper. (I recommend Bill Bryson's book "Heat Treatment, Selection, and Application of Tool Steels") for excellent information on selection and heat treat processing tool steels.

[jmccustomknives]

IDK, I've thought about the process but it seems to me a magnet and a good toaster oven with a thermometer are a lot simpler and perhaps easier.

[knifedude1999]

IDK, I've thought about the process but it seems to me a magnet and a good toaster oven with a thermometer are a lot simpler and perhaps easier.

a magnet with 5160 only tells your very close

with W2 I don't think that critical and non-magnetic are very close

 

Like I said I was talking about getting a feel for steel, since when you first forge a new steel you can't go by color.

 

BTW for differential  tempering not for through tempering

[Steve Sells]

tempil sticks  wont work as well for tempering, except for some alloys like  H13 and those other things that like the 1000F degree temper.  Tempering is only part of the H/T proscess. please the read pinned threads (sticky's) here and in the knife referance section for more details.  If we all use the same terms it makes answers to questions more useful

[knifedude1999]

tempil sticks  wont work as well for tempering, except for some alloys like  H13 and those other things that like the 1000F degree temper.  Tempering is only part of the H/T proscess. pleasre the read pinned threads (sticky's) here and in the knife referance section for more details.  If we all use the same terms it makes answers to questions more useful

Do think they would work well for heat treating?

[Steve Sells]

for the hardening part sure...

[Judson Yaggy]

Steve, why won't Tempil sticks work for tempering?  I thought they started at around 200 deg. F. and went up from there.  Not trying to call you out, just an honest question.  And yes, I have read most everything in the heat treat and knife section even thou I'm not a knife maker.  

[Steve Sells]

I never saw them here under 800F or so.... so maybe they can work for you :)

 

but  its temp and time, so temple sticks can show the temp has been reached, but using the oxide colors is free. and a thermometer in the tempering oven is easy also.

[timgunn1962]

My feeling would be that, whether they work or not, they are not likely to be a particularly good use of resources; They'll tell you if you've exceeded a certain temperature. If you use two, they can tell you if you are within a given range.

 

To use them, you need to have pretty good access to the workpiece. This may limit the techniques available to you: it seems to me it would be difficult to use a steel-tube muffle with Tempilstiks for Austenitizing, for example.

 

They are 70-plus-year-old technology, according to their website, which means they predate the transistor, let alone the Integrated Circuit. They are certainly proven, but may have been overtaken by developments in the last 7 decades.

 

A modern electronic handheld temperature readout and a suitable type K thermocouple can be bought for less than 4 Tempilstiks can (I'm in the UK, so YMMV, but it looks like the ratio is pretty similar in the USA). The thermocouple/readout is far more useful.

[metalmangeler]

I don't often come to this part of the site so I had not seen this. I use them. I have a 350 one I use if I am preheating say an anvil and I do not want to over heat it I stop when it melts. I have a 1825 one I use to tell when I hvae reached critical temp on my H13 projects. At nonmagnetic H13 will not air quench hard. I have a 1750 for S7. I also have a few in the 600-900 range these you could likely elliminate as the steel colors could replace the crayon. Mostly these just sit in their place, but I do use them from time to time. There are no doubt better tools to measure with but these will get you by to an extent.

[LongShadows]

Hi,
I have used Tempil sticks, extensively during my 40+ years as a Journeyman Tool and Die Welder. They are a fine product with great accuracy. (But, they are quite pricey!) They work fine for Pre-heat, interpass temperature and Post-heat during proper applications of welding/heat treat procedures for Tool Steels. I have moved on to using the proper rated electronic laser pointer type IR sensor guns.

I am not a blade maker, but I have done the "heat treating" for dozens of hopeful knife and sword makers. I have flame-hardened fillet knives made from saw blades; case hardened marginal steel blades in cyanide salts; Bowies made from D2; many have attempted using files!!; 400 series stainless steel for swords; and yes, the prized 5160 from leaf springs. I was fortunate to be working for GM in Fisher Body's Blacksmith shop in Lansing, MI. where I completed my apprenticeship. With access to a lot of equipment and resources, I would never turn anyone away, no matter how ill conceived or hopeless their project. I loved the challenge of pushing the envelope!

The proper procedure for all hardenable steels is always HARDEN completely, then TEMPER it back to the desired hardness. And, the variances in thickness which drastically affect the "soak-times"; and the thinness factor of a blade, which mandates a controlled atmosphere during all phases of the heat treating process, all combine to make the use and observation of a Tempil stick problematic.

Tempil sticks are successfully used all the time, but as soon as your atmosphere is exposed the process becomes uncontrolled, and close tolerance hardness cannot be achieved. But, it is "good enuff" or "in the ballpark" for most home-styled blade makers. The best results I had were from the use of an electric furnace with Omron temperature controllers. If you are serious about your craft you will be willing to spend the several thousands for good core equipment. Many people spend high dollars for a Bass boat that only gets used a handful of times each year, but they will balk at laying down comparable dollars for metal working equipment they can use all year long!

Good luck in your endeavors!

[Frosty]

Well said Longshadows. I award that a BINGO!

 

Frosty The Lucky.