Blacksmith Jim Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Howdy folks, I just put together a guillotine tool a few weeks ago, and am now thinking about all the fun dies I want to make for it. Some are pretty simple and basic. I'll use them for necking down, and for forming tenons, etc. However there are some I am thinking I would like to make to use for cutting lines into and veining pieces. I'm thinking about things like putting in lines along a square bar for twisting decorations, etc.. So, in use, I would use the die along a 5 or 6 or more inch section of the bar. Obviously my die would only be a half inch wide or so, so I would have to hit it alot as I move the bar along. Not to mention getting all four sides. Now with my hand tools, I water quench them every 3 or 4 whacks (assuming its not an alloy like h13 or something). What do I need to do for the guillotine dies? I was thinking of using some leaf spring (got a bunch of it) to make the chisel bits to weld up into a die. How do I keep it cool? Do I need to remove the dies and quench? In some of the big open die forging videos I been watching on YouTube, they often have a helper there spraying the dies with some liquid, presumably to keep them cool. Do you guys spray down your guillotine mid work? Thanks for reading. Any advice or thoughts are greatly appreciated. R.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysdexik Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I just want to throw this in the discussion here. If I am doing a lot of grinding on blades like hewing axes, draw knives etc. I have an old heatsink from a computer, mounted on a stick, I just brush the edge with the heatsink and it soaks up the heat like a sponge! I was dubious when I first tried it, but it works. I have been meaning to contact Ice Czar to find out why, but I guess I realy don't need to know as long as it works! I don't see why it wouldn't work on dies too. And with the amount of old towers around heatsinks are common. Paul. It's not over... Untill we Win!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I have never had my guillotine dies get so hot that they deformed. They will get too hot to touch with a bare hand but certainly won't turn red. Most of my dies are for fullering and setting shoulders since I cut-off with other tools - but I do have some veining tools and they do not deform. I believe it may be due partly to the thermal mass of the dies and the fact that a guillotine works so quickly that the tools are not compromised. If I have one complaint, it's that the struck surfaces mushroom badly and often require redressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 Yea, I imagine with shouldering, fullering, drawing, etc.. I shouldn't have a problem. But what I'd like to do, is cut into the bar 1/4" deep and 1/4" from the side. And run that cut down the bar about 6 inches. Seems like it might dull the cutting edge if I don't cool it somehow ...... The old computer heat sink idea is kinda funny to picture :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truman Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I agree with HWooldridge. Mushrooming has been a bigger problem for me than deformed working ends. I guess it's possible that you might make a tool that has a very thin edge that could heat up quickly. In that case, I'd have a bucket of water handy and just submerge the entire guillotine tool. There is no reason to mess around with taking the dies out and putting them back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 maybe if the guillotine has a handle on it, I could easily pull the whole thing outta the vise and quench quickly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayco Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 My guilotine dies are leaf spring. I don't do anything to cool them, and they haven't deformed from heat. You could always try water in a spray bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 I only made a couple dies from leaf spring, the cut off and butcher, the rest are just mild steel and are holding up fine so far. The butcher has too acute an angle and has overheated some but I'm gradually making the angle more obtuse as I sharpen it. Once I get the angle that works best I'll keep it. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 I only made a couple dies from leaf spring, the cut off and butcher, the rest are just mild steel and are holding up fine so far. The butcher has too acute an angle and has overheated some but I'm gradually making the angle more obtuse as I sharpen it. Once I get the angle that works best I'll keep it. Frosty Frosty do you think case hardning it might help...I've been playing with that ideal just not tried it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 No. Case hardening is only useful where wear resistance is necessary. It'll do nothing at all for things like dies. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 So I'm wasting my time case hardening mild steel dies made for forming balls, acorns, etc ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 No real need to as cold mild is much more resistant to deforming than just about any hot metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 But they do last a lot longer I find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 If it works for you, then go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 So I'm wasting my time case hardening mild steel dies made for forming balls, acorns, etc ? Except for the learning experience itself. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcraigl Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 John, I don't think you're wasting your time at all. Makes them a bit more durable, and not a lot of effort compared to grinding/machining new dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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