NOS Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 OK everyone, I'm going to finally make some cable damascus. I need to know if I have the right materials and if you can give me any tips/tricks for my first try with this. I'm not expecting to get it right on the first try or even the tenth for that matter. lol I've been given about 50+ feet of stainless cable that appears to be 5/8" to 3/4" thick. I know that SS can be a "bear" to work with, so any help you can give me there would be great. I'm not sure exactly what grade of SS it is. If any other thickness or type of cable would be easier for me to start on, let me know. I wouldn't be trying this so soon, except for the fact that I can't stand to see good material just sit in my shop. I've done some forge welding and have started to get the hang of it. Just thought I would give it a go and see what happens. Thanks in advance for all of your help :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Get some steel cable. Forge welding SS requires fluxes with flourides in them and is a bear then. Flourides are quite toxic and you should not only have the safety equipment but be familiar with the safety procedures. Get some plain old steel cable or drive/chainsaw chain and have at it. Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Turner Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Well stainless cable will have to be welded in a can and is of no good for a knife so you will have to make a san mai to make a useable knife of this. Personally I would not even try to mess with that stainless cable. I would find a crane out fit near you or contact Darren Ellis he sells wire rope for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 Thanks to both of you for the advice, Frosty and Mike. I'm going to use some old chainsaw and drive chain that I have in the garage for now, and I'll get some new cable the next time I'm out at my brothers. Thanks for the link Mike, I think that will come in handy for my projects in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Anderson R Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Check your local scrap yard and see if they have some 1" or bigger crane cable, that stuff works pretty well, make sure you have big wires to start out with. Forge welding anything smaller than 3/4" wont leave you with enough carbon to hold a good edge. Get yourself some anhydrous borax for flux, much better then regular borax and remember to flux then tighten the cable by twisting it. Befor you start, unravel a small part of the cable and remove a strand, then quench it to see if its hardenable ( not all steel cable is high carbon ), also make sure theres no foreign objects like rope or plastic in the center of the cable, if there is make sure you take it out. Good luck! Its fun stuff to work with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantrum86 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 i would have to agree with anderson the only thing i would add is to remember to keep a very low and even heat and that the stuff ive used welds in the orange color range and tends to burn in the yellow.if you cant find any cable i have a yard full of the stuff and no real shortage of supply its not allways new but i know where it came from and what its made of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 J Anderson R, thanks for the advice. I'll look for the thicker cable when I go scrounging. I'll have to find some anhydrous borax also, as I only have regular right now. tantrum86, If I can't find anything that will suit my needs I will contact you to see what you might happen to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyshackleford Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 is it possible to weld the cable only by twisting it? I want to say I saw someone say that, but can't trust my memory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmercier Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Yes, you can set the weld in cable by twisting it tight with it at heat. All it takes to weld steel together is heat and pressure, and twisting the cable tight with a monkey wrench / pipe wrench creates a lot of pressure. This is my prefered way to set the weld, then i'll draw out the billet after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I have some 3/4 in cable, not sure of it's parentage, to play with. I wanted to make some small knives for gifts. Not wanting to weld the whole length into a billet I believe I've heard I just need to forge weld the two ends and draw out to shape. should I also be twisting to put pressure on the ends? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmercier Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 You need to weld the whole length of your billet, otherwise you dont have anythign to forge except a bunch of loosely wound wires, and nothing to shape into a blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 (edited) In Tim McCreight's book, Custom Knifemaking, he mentions that you can put the normal borax in a can near the forge fire and it will boil the water out of it. All that will be left is a glassy substance- borax- in the bottom of the can. You break this up and then use it on your welds. I'm trying to look up the reference for you if you ever get your hands on the book. But I do question some of the things in the book. Pages 193-194 Edited December 3, 2008 by Ecart found reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyshackleford Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I saw some blades that looked almost too lose to be functional; there's a good chance that was the case. the idea of squaring it with the mini hydraulic press mentioned elsewhere, and using just the squared ends to be held in the vise/hardy and the other gripped w/ a twisting wrench crossed my mind. that'd be some hefty twisting.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meinhoutexas Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 reading all the posts now i need an answer i have some "pre-stressing" cable out of bridge beams would that be good stuff to work with? Have welded it with 7018 stick and was verrryyy brittle. Not nearly 3/4" dia but like 6 strands and over 1/8 dia per strand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 In my previous post I meant to leave the cable in the middle as the handle and weld both ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 At the NC ABANA booth at the State Fair this year, a guy I know welded up the blade section of the cable, made a bolster somehow - I forget how - left the handle unwelded and made a butt cap. It was a very interesting piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Richards Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Have you tried any other forge welding yet?? Cable and chain are much harder to do than straight damascus. If you have some experience in forge welding and are comfortable with your fire control then I would recommend getting Wayne Goddards tape on making a cable knife. He describes in detail the process he uses to make cable Damascus. He twist welds several pieces and forms a billet from that. Stacking 5 or more pieces in a bundle. Welds the ends and welds on a handle. Heats the whole mess up to welding temp then presses it together. Heat and repeat. He like to get a lot of cross section reduction to remove the voids that are inherent in the cable and chain welding. It can be done in the single strand method and I used to doit that way. but my success to failure rate was way too low. I have now gone to doing 99% of my damascus (cable and all) dry or in a can. It provides a much cleaner weld and I have a much higher success rate. Good Luck and get some good steel cable, no galvi or non steel center strand material. Make sure it is extra improved plow steel. And no SS it is almost always 300 series and will not make a good knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Hello All: Geeze..I find the extact opposite..in fact I use cable as a confidence builder when teaching folks to weld. Then again I cheat and use a "V" bottom swage which really helps a whole lot. Twist is at a welding heat and you can get a good start on welding the whole mess together...below is something I welded up in about 45 minutes (just the welding not the whole project) out of 1 1/4" XXImp PS cable..plus a little Ni to break it up a bit pattern wise... Maybe I am working differently but for me cable just sticks together real easy.. JPH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Richards Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Well JP is the guru of the forge. His books are also very worthwhile to read and reference. "The Complete Bladesmith" "The Master Bladesmith" and "The Pattern Welded Blade", Still looking forward to #4. i can get my cable to stick really easy but the voids are were I run into problems. Getting it to weld up with no flaws is difficult for me. My very first cable blade was very solid, no flaws that I could see. But then it took me another 6 months to repeat it. like someone said, Practice Practice Practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I'm really not a good welder yet. But I have welded a piece of cable before. It looked pretty good when I was done with it. I ran into a problem when I doubled it and tried to weld to two layers together. Don't know/can't remember why though. I can't weld chain yet, but I'll give that another shot soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I hate welding up a big nice juicy billet, get it to shape then find some small voids when you get down to about 400 grit...Man, I can chew railroad spikes in two when I do that I welded up a big billet the other day from three seperate pieces of 1/2" cable stacked on each other and did that..:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny O Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 what percentage of smiths are using power hammers? I guess with cable a person doesn't need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucegodlesky Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Ya don't "need" one but it sure helps :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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