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I Forge Iron

Dimensions of a small shop


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Hey all :P I have the luxury of building my own shop from scratch but the unfortunate handicap of building it in a small backyard that limits it's size significantly. That being said I am going to be attempting to make it as compact as possible while keeping it from causing me to many headaches as I move around. I was thinking about 7' x 10-12' for the dimensions. The structure will be of a lean to design with a ceiling as low as 7'

I am the definition of a newbie who is far to ambitious for his own good. I intend on starting with simple knife making and working my way toward things like fire set making (pokers, shovels and the sort) and maybe some simple and I'm sure at first crappy swords lol (I know this wont be for a number of years down the line). Also I hope to work toward some minor forge welding.

I will not be situating a power hammer, or any other modern powered tools and will likely begin with hand sanding as my grinding method ><.

My theory being that even if I do end up having jumped in to head strong I will still have build a nice shed! =) I am 19 years old and living with my mom as a full time college student and part time worker. She's wanted a new shed for a time so this could be a gift if the smithing part of it never happens so it's useful either way.

I know I may have not given enough information to go on but I am hoping someone who is working in a similar set up of few or no power tools will be able to share with me there thoughts. Or those with power hammers nad grinders who are able to imagine a shop size without them =) I greatly appreciate any input and if you need more info just tell me to clarify.

I plan on using a coke or coal forge with a bit of hearth space.

Thank you all in advance! ;)
-Justin

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That is pretty small Justin but workable, especially if you make it open up to use.

Starting with blades and then moving to fire tools is a bit bassackwards.

Do the fire tools, coat hooks, hinges, etc. etc. first to develop forging skills, then make things like tongs, pliers, compasses, etc. to develop precision then move on to making hot and cold chisels, hot cuts, wood chisels, etc. to get a handle on tool steels and heat treating. Then try making small blades, paring knife size and work your way up.

Typically a blade maker doesn't need a large space, especially for stock removal. Smithing blades requires an absolute minimum enough room to swing a hammer and a 7' roof ain't gonna get it.

If you can't go higher it means you'll probably have to move part of the operation outdoors. This can be as simple as you standing outside at the anvil for swing room.

Frosty

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As always good to see ya post Frosty :D

I should have clarified that I'd be starting with crap materials (road spikes and the sort) so I was intending on getting the feel for a hammer through them and those kind of blades before I moved onto actually buying any materials. But I don't know if you'd still consider it better to just start with purchased stock for fire tools. I am always open to advise. I am not to tall a guy at 5' 8" (I realize when swinging I will be going higher) but I could raise the roof another foot to 8' min with little issue, do you think that would be suitable ?

This is exactly the kind of thing I wouldn't really think about on my own thank you! I am now considering 13' x 7' x 8' min 8' 10" max (which would likely situate my anvil under about 8' 5" or so). As always I am open to scrutiny cause I don't pretend to know what I'm doing :P.

Edited by WannabeSmith
grammar
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We're about the same height and depending on the hammer and stroke I'm taking, I know I can plow a furrow in an 8' ceiling. I seldom make the "reach for the sky and drive for the devil" blows but when you're needing to move some serious metal it doesn't pay to play pitty pat with it.

However, unless you really luck out and get a big one, anvils are pretty portable and moving one a few feet out the door shouldn't be a major thing. Outside you can reach for the sky if necessary and not worry about scrapin the blue off.

Now, on the other issue. One of the beauties of blacksmithing is there really aren't that many "crap" materials. RR spikes are wonderful pieces of low carbon steel, much MUCH better than having to deal with the iffyness of rebar.

Don't get me wrong, rebar is perfectly serviceable steel, bearing in mind it has really broad specs and can be anything from mild to HC.

On the whole though, steel found in the scrap piles of the RR yard and along the rails (get permission! it's a federal offense to help yourself.) is high quality steel.

Rail is generally around 1085-1095 unless it's marked with a "Y" or "V" then it's Yard rail and contains a high percentage of Vanadium which presents heat treat characteristics that are problematical for the home shop. Track and tie plates are at the high end of low C. Spring clips are medium C around 1045 and make fine tough tools like hammers, hold fasts, pry bars and the like.

If you can get a car axle they make wonderful, absolutely marvelous, anvils if buried on end to a working height. No horn but weighing in around 400lbs very tough med C steel and a depth of rebound better than 4' long, they are SUPER anvils.

After a while your eye will be naturally drawn to steel laying all lonesome and you'll adopt it like any good smith. Then you'll either make something from it or give it a safe home in your resource area.

Frosty

Edited by Frosty
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Haha well it sounds like I may have to move my operations of hammering outside if I really can't fit it in that height. As you have said though, I can always move it outside if need be.

I was only mildly aware of the whole illegal business when I went down there the first time to collect those things. But I will certainly avoid that now. Oh I forgot to mention for my first anvil I was able to get a 2 ft piece of "light" rail from a Rail supply company for free :). It's a start anyway. I found it pretty funny today as I watched the history of the samurai on the history channel there was a Japanese sword smith working on a blade and I saw a piece of rail track sitting in his shop next to his forge. I got a good laugh out of it.

I highly doubt I will gain access to a car axle anytime soon but it is noted in my mind now.

Thanks again Frosty!

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Haha that is very true Frosty. I just like it for the honor based part of it. In 16th century Japan the lands of one of his most worthy rivals Takeda Shingen were being strangled through a blockade of salt and rice. Rather then allow Shingen to fall in this manner Kenshin sent a caravan to run the blockade that made it because no one had suspected he would aid his career long rival. When asked why he responded "Wars are to be won with swords and spears, not with rice and salt."

Seems like a beautiful sentiment to me. When Shingen later passed away Kenshin is reported to have mourned the loss of such a worthy adversary by weeping aloud. It is the values of the past that often create my love for history. Anywho upon reutterance of the quote you did make me realize I used battles instead of wars thank you.

Rasper would it really be an issue if a strong enough pull is coming from the chimney ? Look forward to your response, have me pretty worried 0.0

Edited by WannabeSmith
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The forging station in my old shop was only 8 ft, x 8 ft. and the ceiling was only 8 ft at the highest point........a lean-to shed.
It was permanently enclosed on 3 sides, open to the front in summer.
In winter the 'open' side was boxed with a few sheets of roofing metal or 2 sheets of plywood...whichever was most handy.

I had a flue made from 6 in. stove pipe and scrounged sheet metal that didn't draw all that well, acctually........but if it did get smokey at start-up, I just opened the door for a few minutes. Once the fire was burning hot.......no problems.

I had a coal/charcoal forge, and anvil, post vise, and bench grinder in there.......there wasn't a lot of room, but was adequate.

The one time when I feared the little shop would not be large enough was when a guy wanted a 6 and 1/2 ft. digging/prying bar made.
It took some effort to get the stock in the forge and to the anvil.

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I worked in a small shop with a friend once, it was basicly a 10x10 floor with a slant roof high end was 10 foot, low end 7. The anvil was under an area about 9 foot. It was crowded especially when working long bars but it worked all right. The forge was coal and the chimney had adequate draft. Downside was the small size of the building, the draft would pull all the warm air out and up, long before the heater he had could replenish the warmth and trying to work large tripods, the curl on the top was a bear to get room to maneuver the metal...

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Well it sounds like it can be done and that's what I was hoping to hear! I'll likely end up dealing with one cold little building but that's okay, it'll only guarantee that I'll feel anything that shoots onto me :P I am going to be using 12 in flue for the chimney so hopefully that'll give me the draft I need.

Thanks guys!

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i started off in a shop that was 10X 6 ... it worked but i didnt make anything big turned it into a 10x10 fairly quickly ... then got a power hammer . I opened one side dragged the hammer as close as i could get it and built a addition over it the roof over it ended up low but that was ok it was only to protect the hammer from rain.. small shops work fine but you need to keep um cleaner . otherwise you end up stepping on stuff all the time ! my current shop is 15x15 and has a power hammer in it along with drill press beverly shear niagara punch shear combo and all kinds of tools ... also a small part is my showroom! if you have a choice go for a 9 or 10 ft hight even if the sides dont go all the way up! you can put screen in and have ventelation with out haveing critters gettin in.. just a thought .. have fun!

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Well dablacksmith sounds like there is hope for my shop if you got by in a 10 x 6 :o I can deal with keeping it a bit cleaner to save some money and not have this massive building in my small backyard haha. When I get home I will go out and see how a 10ft roof would fit, I like the thought of screening for the top half but it likely wouldn't work for the winter, it is something to think about doing with a cover option because it'd be great for summer but I will likely just go for solid wall all the way up.

Good to hear from ya fiery! I plan on working on the fire set and some small hooks and only fiddling around with a RR spike knife if I'm up to it for kicks. I certainly don't plan on buying anything to ruin with my inexperienced hands heh. Thanks for the tips!

I hope to get the "foundation" in this weekend I'll keep you guys up to date thanks for all the input!

-Justin

Edited by WannabeSmith
Grammar
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I have been planning a small shop for some time. My plan-which may work for you-is to build the shed on strong enough timbers to support the entire structure without relying on the strength of the walls. Then the walls will be hinged on top to allow them to be pushed open-giving you and extra 7-9 feet in each direction when the walls are propped up and you are working. When you are done, pull everything inside, drop the walls and it's secure against the elements and theft. In my climate, the open walls provides plenty of ventilation too. My brother-in-law built a hunting cabin similar to this idea and it works really well. If I can get some pics, I will do so, but it could be a while.....

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That original 7' height had me puzzled as 7' is usually more expensive in time and money than 8' as most building materials are sized in 4x8 sheets.

For blademaking a 10'x10' forge area is quite spacious for *1* person and a good side draft chimney will remove smoke with no problems. The big question is where are you going to do the stock removal and finish work on blades?

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Thomas you are right hehe I was not thinking when I figured the dimensions and just had it in my head after that. I eventually realized it and will be going with 8x12. For my stock removal for the time being will be a piece of angle iron with clamps =D so if I can't fit it in there I can do it outside if need be or ummm..... ~shrug~ lol.

I really liked the idea about the lift up sides, seriously an awesome way to extend the roofing during the warm seasons!

Thanks for the advice/comments guys!

Take care!

-Justin

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