Sonicadventure Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Hi all, I needed to make a set of custom pliers, so I cut down an old set of 6” Kobalt pliers (the kind with the blue and grey slide off handle covers) from about 10-15 years ago. I annealed the pliers, drilled my hole and filed the heads, and attempted to re-harden them by heating the first half inch of the jaws to a cherry red and quenching in hot water. A file test seems to indicate they didn’t harden much if at all. Anyone know what kind of steel these are, or what the process might be to harden and temper them? They are made in China. I believe they came from Lowe’s. I didnt do a file test on them before I annealed them, I should have to get a baseline hardness. However I was able to saw off the tips with a standard hacksaw after heating them red hot and leaving them cool in a can of sand. let me know what you all think! Attaching a picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 cherry red isnt hot enough, and water?!?! if it were hot enough you would have shattered the pliers, try reading the pinned heat treat explanation I already wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicadventure Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 Hi Steve, I looked at your links, but at this point I’m trying to first identify the type of steel I’m working with, then I can apply the proper techniques. The water I used was hot tap water that had probably cooled to around 100° at the time of quench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Did you contact Kobolt to find out what alloy you are dealing with? What posts did you read in the heat treat threads? I do not recall ANY of them recommend water as a quenchant for high carbon OR high alloy steel, Chrome or Nickel above a few points = high alloy in steel with more than maybe 30-40 points C. One last thing. Why choose the mythical "cherry" red instead of Critical temp? Oh okay, what color is "Cherry Red" you quenched at, "red," orange or mid high orange? The cherries that represent the temperature "cherry" red are early Colonial era cherries which were darkish orange. Any time you see someone recommend "cherry red" get a temperature from them and match to a color chart. You can download print those free and print a couple few different ones, you'd be surprised at the color variations between websites, monitors and printer ink. Most real welding supplies will have color correct temperature charts. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Hard to correct things if the metal is cracked from the water quenching too fast, but you know best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicadventure Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, Steve Sells said: Hard to correct things if the metal is cracked from the water quenching too fast, but you know best No, I don’t know best, that’s why I’m here asking. And no, the metal is not cracked, hence why I’m asking now before I do anything else. 1 hour ago, Frosty said: Did you contact Kobolt to find out what alloy you are dealing with? What posts did you read in the heat treat threads? I do not recall ANY of them recommend water as a quenchant for high carbon OR high alloy steel, Chrome or Nickel above a few points = high alloy in steel with more than maybe 30-40 points C. One last thing. Why choose the mythical "cherry" red instead of Critical temp? Oh okay, what color is "Cherry Red" you quenched at, "red," orange or mid high orange? The cherries that represent the temperature "cherry" red are early Colonial era cherries which were darkish orange. Any time you see someone recommend "cherry red" get a temperature from them and match to a color chart. You can download print those free and print a couple few different ones, you'd be surprised at the color variations between websites, monitors and printer ink. Most real welding supplies will have color correct temperature charts. Frosty The Lucky. I haven’t contact Kobalt but that will probably be my next step. I figured this would be a faster, even if anecdotal route. I’m not saying any of the links mentioned water quenching. I now realize the issues, however, it is not the first time I’ve quenched steel in water. I know there are better solutions but sometimes you work with what you have until you have what you need. Good point on the cherry red, I’ll have to get a color chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 I think you would probably be better served by grinding the tool to shape (using a thin cutting wheel in an angle grinder or a round abrasive burr in a flexible shaft tool to cut the notch), cooling it frequently in water to keep from spoiling the heat treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 I don't normally get involved in these discussions and yield the floor to folk with more experience than I have but I will throw in a thought or two this time. First, are the jaws too soft in their unheat treated state? The steel used in tools like these is often pretty tough and I don't know if they are heat treated in the manufacturing process. It may be that you do not need heat treating at all. The jaws are the most stressed portion when in use and I would be hesitant to do anything that would induce any brittleness in that area. If you have a similar pair you might compare the hardness of the jaws as they come from the factory to how they are after your forging. Second, if you do harden that area I would strongly suggest tempering, maybe to a blue or purple. Third, as a comment on John's suggestion I have always felt that all shaping, filing, grinding, etc. should be done prior to heat treating to avoid drawing the heat treat by heating the metal from friction and to do the metal work when the metal is softest. Polishing, buffing, and general finishing, yes, but move metal before realigning its crystal structure. Good luck. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike BR Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 I'm pretty sure pliers are hardened; after all the jaws need to bite into whatever you're plying. But you haven't said what you plan to use yours for, so they might or might not need to be hard. A good starting point is to heat them a little above non-magnetic, then quench in oil. Or better still, do that with one of the pieces you cut off, and set the tool itself aside until you hit a combination that gives you what you're looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Actually Mike this type plier isn't very hard, they cut fence wire at most. I've personally ruined (ask Dad) a couple pair trying to cut sort of hard steel, one sheet metal screw and I don't recall the one when I was a kid but put nasty notches in the cutters both times. My later mistake was after getting tired of how hard I had to squeeze my diagonal side cutters (Dikes for you old timers) Soooo I got out my fencing pliers and notched the cutters badly. The ones I've used are not nearly as hard as slip joint pliers. Seriously, used as designed, driving nails and staples with them is all in a day's work. Not going to beat up on you anymore but it'll save you a LOT of time, effort and money to ask for advice before trying a thing you don't know how to do. I still do it myself though so . . . <shrug> Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Good Morning, I bought some compound pivot Pliers This past summer. They are awesome at snipping, with less hand force. The Law of the Lever, Yes!!!! We all have tried to make Honey out of something else , sometimes it turns into what the Dog left behind, sometimes you succeed. If you don't try, you never know. Don't stop trying something. The Skoool of Larningg is never far away. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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