Les L Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 hbmasa, I don’t think you are understanding what we are trying to explain to you #1) quite wasting time on this billet until you have learned how to correctly forge weld a section of cable, then try to save this piece when you have more experience #2) you don’t need to have your forge cranked wide open, you only need it to get to welding heat. That is the lemon yellow color of the material in the video. Light your forge, place your cable inside and heat it up until the entire section of cable is that color all the way through the cable. You can not time this, you have to go by the color. The cable and inside of the forge will be the same color turn your cable to make sure it’s the same, with no shadows on any sides #3) follow the directions you have been given to weld it working in short sections. Complete one short section at a time #4) pounding is not the answer, or weight of hammer, it is technique which has been explained. If it is not at welding temperature it will not weld, no matter what you do. When a section doesn’t weld it gets scale trapped in the area and the only way to get it to weld is to grind the scale out of that area before trying to weld it again , which is very hard with cable I hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmasa Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Ok, thanks, i tried to continue finishing this and actually did ok. If i dont "pound" once its stiffening i can seem to effect the center strands. Every cut i did across the billet showed a few strands in the center i think disappeared with more hammering. Its go good to know to do each section 100%. Id been doing about 8-13. As a side note. I did see slag bubble out in the flux when i dropped it in cracks. Pretty neet. Im gonna post pics but it takes alot of time to sand w an angle grinder. Too get all the grooves and recessions. I am listening, just trying to quietly get out of this (the 2" is nice for bigger blades.) Fiasco. The other thing is that i have 16" x 2" with expensively migged ends, and dont have anything else to work on. I really appreciate you not giving up on me. I am listening for new stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmasa Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Listening for new stuff i mean for next lot of metal bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les L Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I'm glad we were able to help and that you have had good progress. As you work that piece down square then draw it out flat for your knife you should end up with a completely welded billet. Just remember to only work it HOT, unless you are planishing the final shape. The next one should not be a problem for you, just remember to work short sections and finish them before working more of the cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmasa Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 This one was worlds easier with you guys help. I kinda choose optimism over cognition alot. If yal wouldnt have helped, you can imagine how far id have gotte. It looks like im combing metal hair. Thanks guys, Picture when visiible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmasa Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 Side item, sorry. I rehardened a piece of metal but forgot to temper 1 week ago, can i just temper now at 300 for 2 hours or all the way reharden again. Tx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 You can temper it now. Typically, you want to temper immediately after the quench. Many times the internal stress from the quench process will result in the part cracking while it’s just sitting there. I’ve not had that problem yet, but I’m pretty quick with getting to the tempering process. Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Happy New Year, Temper as soon as possible after hardening. Yes, temper it now!! The example I have and learned; A friend reforged and hardened a Ball Pein Hammer, he was going to temper it later. He forgot that he put it in a drawer of his workbench, he opened that drawer about a year later. The hammer face was a multitude of cracks, it looked like the moon. The stress from Hardening in the steel, relieved itself. No sunlight, no heat other than normal workshop temperature, no bumping into something. Stress!! Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmasa Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 Thank you gentleman. This was a requench on an already tempered blade i didnt like without the handle hardened too. It bent. have a great weekend guys and thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmasa Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 Hey guys. Hope all hss neen well. It was suggested earlier to try and finish my billet just to see. I have done that. In crack pic is there something to tell me the crack is more than just needing another beat Pic two. Was i dumb to scoreythematal this much digging for smooth on the inside Question C if you beat cable at welding heat, will it disappear, refuse to spread out. In the really good video it showed welding. If i can figure the color to heat, is there good temps to stretch out cable. Ive been using welding heat 2075- 2200 for everything. Thanks I have a rr track to work on and a shallow straight peen and plenty beginners cross peen. I have also been hitting it pretty hard once my ping is solid. Rr track jumps about 4" if ive got a special hit to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmasa Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 Hey guys, ready yo draw out lengthwise. Any ideas. I posted this here because i didnt get yelled at first time. Nobody respects the swage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Anchor your anvil down so it doesn't jump when you use it, that's wasting a LOT of hammer energy. Unless you flattened the rail, it will have a gentle curve across it and will function as a bottom fuller. Position your piece across the rail and use that curve. What do you mean by "shallow" straight pein? Is the pein wide and round or narrow with a smaller radius? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmasa Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 The pein only sticks out about 1 " its a fiskars. All the cross peins have a tail3-4" with a square frame. Can i have any type of fire that would make the metal hard to work once its welded? It might just bea matter of needing to hit it harder. I weighted it down with wrapped big chain Tx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 My goodness your post is a hard to read jumble. Can't blame you with a 4 year pandemic stop to education and it not being so great before that. Sorry for the side track. How far a pein sticks out is pretty irrelevant, it is the RADIUS of the contact edge that matters. It is true it seems European cross and straight peins aren't evenly balanced between pein and face. They aren't difficult to use, it is all hammer control and that is part of YOUR learning curve. Practice. Your fire question is again your skill, not the fire. In what universe would some kind of fire make steel hard to forge? In short the answer is, NO. MAYBE need to hit it harder? OR let it heat all the way through and put it back in the fire when it's cooled below forging temp. Of COURSE cable gets harder for move as it becomes more solidly ONE piece of steel. Did you think about that before asking? As an analogy is a handful of saw dust easier to compress in your hand than a solid branch? They are exactly the same stuff, came from the same tree even. Hmmm? Weighted . . . IT down? What is "IT," your hammer, the cable, your foot? You are asking questions about a specific topic, IT is a generality and can mean literally any thing. For example, Of course you have to weight it down or the bait won't sink to where the fish feed. Try again. I've held off answering you for this long to avoid being outright sarcastic. Next time think about your question and ask ONE. Jumbling all the things you don't understand into one hodge podge post doesn't help you as it isn't possible to answer without taking WAY TOO MUCH TIME composing an answer. NOBODY can teach a subject, all anybody CAN do is present information. Learning is on YOU. Take it one thing at a time so you can think about and absorb the information. 6 things will only mess you up. When I point out #2 as your mistake, you'll want to argue based on #5 and I'll give up. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmasa Posted January 24 Author Share Posted January 24 Its hard to tell real info in 101. Some "official", non covidian posters ( or those with a poor state education) write things not in 101 or changed their thoughts after several years of covid. There is no way to tell whats new without writing dates, topics and authors down to compare.Its like an old school library as opposed to a forum. The questions i have are for people who have it and would like to help. Not asking anybody specific for anything. Sometimes its fun to share knowledge if you have it. Nobody reads love and war to find out it was tolstoy. I try to post newest questions because after a few hours i try my guess on the old questions. Im about 60% accurate. Just trying to be a recreational metal monkey, not run the large stuff everybody apparently runs or is ready to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmasa Posted January 24 Author Share Posted January 24 What is the right answer when asked to describe my straight pein . Short? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 There is no "right" answer to many/most questions. In the case of your straight peen hammer, I would say it has been used a lot and ground to that shape by a long ago smith who needed/wanted one shaped like that. Put a serviceable handle on it and enjoy. Now my question is. What does that hammer have to do with V swage's? I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Irondragon, looking at the straight peen hammer, that is shape fiskars came out with a few years ago. I would have bought one if it wasn’t for the resin handle, just to try out. I’m not sure that I would call the peen particularly short. It seems to fit the over all shape of the hammer, even if the hammer doesn’t fit traditional blacksmith styles. It look like an over all good hammer, but haven’t had the opportunity to use on yet. Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 By golly, I believe you are right. A good thread about them. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/54577-fiskars-4lb-straight-pein-hammer/ I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Had to look it up again, they're more demolition hammers, the straight pein is for busting things like concrete, brick masonry, etc. The local industrial hardware keeps them in stock and if I wanted to spend that much money I wouldn't mind giving a 2lb. one a try. I don't think Fiskars makes a "Club" that light though. I don't swing heavy single jack hammers anymore, I have a power hammer for that. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmasa Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 Thanks Goods.(my hammer will always be available if you need one and I appreciate your info. Wow, that felt nice) I posted this on swage page because that's where it started and swage people have been much less grumpy. It will be nice to be able to ask 12 quick answers question all at once but sometimes one answer gets two so it seems like people posting their hundreds (or tens)of of ideas by year end from each person . I admit to combining a lot, thought that was favored. Truth be told these ladies and gents in the swage category have really good hammer knowledge too never could have made it without you dear folks of swage (picture of my metal) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les L Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 On 1/20/2024 at 9:54 AM, hbmasa said: If i can figure the color to heat, is there good temps to stretch out cable. A good quote that I saw on here, I believe by Anvil, that has helped me is "yellow is mellow, red is dead". As has been said several times in this thread Work the cable at near welding heat, put it back in the fire when it cools (starts to loose color) It will move easy at first, when it starts resisting to move heat it back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmasa Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 Hey Les, you were a lot of help in this. Thanks. I've got photos I'm gonna post to ask about color and cracking but don't know who's posting to put it under. Tx again I can remember red is dead. I hadn't even been down in the orange. Everything says be ready to go and stage hammer so I just assumed. Orange/red got to be 3-4 minutes working time. That would be 3-4 more time than it gets now. I thought I thought I was spending more time cooking than necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 "Red is Dead" means you're more likely to damage the work at that temp. When it gets to mid orange it's past time to put it back in the fire. If you're worried about burning the wire in cable flux it and keep it fluxed it will keep oxygen from contacting the steel. Just be aware it WILL squirt molten borax when you hit it Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmasa Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 Is the black square in the groove (at knifetip) a burn mark from angle grinder or is that part of the ugly from welding the ends cable is there any chance this will just end. I think th 2nd grinder channel looks clear. If its angle grinder, how can i prevent im future grindings. I wouldnt be surprised if ìts burned. I was full body weight on the grinder Are these cracjks? K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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