Got first v swage

[hbmasa]

I got my first v swage and migt do worse with it. Do these pictures show someting i need to hammer, cut off or just cut the loose strands out (they are melted in place, though poorly)? Thanks

Does anyone know what 2 inch cable will shrink down to upon hammering?

The bigger sized part of cable is freehand but maybe its not fully collapsed

I think these csble ends got a weird start due to having ends migged and that stuff seems tough and to have grabbed everything

[hbmasa]

 I cut the ends off and was able to see the "look" of bad strands. I guess it's pretty easy to tell. I found in outside reading the answers i was looking for. No cable folks huh? The cable part of knifemaking section isnt full of much good info yet, its more what people want to piece meal together. In the past there were people like kraythe who would give full systems when asked. Is 2024 year of stock removal? I know in Chinese its the year of the donkey.

[Les L]

hbmasa, I'm just seeing your post. Looking at the pictures i think you may have worked the cable too cold and not at welding heat all the way through the cable, so you didn't get a full weld. This is how I do it, I know there are other ways, but this is how I was taught and it works for me.

I don't electric weld the ends of the cable before starting, I will weld a short piece of round or square bar on one end of a short piece of cable to hold it with tongs if the section is too short to be able to hold it with my hands. I heat about 2 inches of the end, flux it bring to welding heat then place it in the v swedge and set the weld, while constantly rotating the cable in the direction of the cable twist. reheat and complete the weld only working at welding heat. After the end is fully welded I heat up the length of cable I'll be welding for my project, usually 6-12 inches, then place the welded end in a vice and untwist the cable to open the strands, pour flux inside, twist closed, then reheat and twist back closed as tight as I can, then I bring short sections, 2-3 inches at a time, to welding heat fluxing the outside as needed and continue welding the cable in the short sections down the length of cable until I have all the cable welded into a solid round bar. I loose about 1/3 of the diameter of the original cable. After I have it all welded I move to the face of the anvil and forge it to square then to the shape I need. I only work it at a high, near welding, heat.  I take my time heating the cable, rotating it as it heats and making sure it is completely heated all the way through before working it. I use plain borax for flux. I hope this helps you. 

Your topic, Got first v swedge,  may be why you haven't received more answers to you cable welding question

[hbmasa]

Wow! Thanks, i gotta print that up. All good stuff. Thank you much. If i refine the weld, (just hit it repeatedly) would it solidify in the wasted space? You were dead right about the temp. I was thinking id already burned the flux out and missed the show but was just not waiting long enough. Is there anyway to spot a flyaway strand that will just eat a billet. I lost 5 of 14" when these strands separated. I now know not to death hammer it down and try to keep crunching levels. Thanks for welding free tip. Thats valuable.

Thanks again for reaching out, really appreciated 

Take time heating flew over my head too. Do you go slower with a regulator or o the adjustable forge contols. (Orange little bars that rotate up to open.)

Tx

[Jo_Bai]

7 minutes ago, hbmasa said:

If i refine the weld, (just hit it repeatedly) would it solidify in the wasted space?

The chance is, that there is a lot of scale in it. You would need to clean every unwelded piece up to try again. In my opinion, try again instead of fixing it.

 

[hbmasa]

Thank you. Doesnt flux fight scale when it dissappears in the cable. Serious question i read last night about. And would it be a weak spot to just try to hammer in the dime size piece.

Tx

Is there a better topic i should attempt posts under. I did just get a vswage delivered saturday.

[Jo_Bai]

2 minutes ago, hbmasa said:

Doesnt flux fight scale when it dissappears in the cable.

From my knowledge, flux is there to help fight oxidation in the first place. But with heavy scale in the cracks, I don't think flux is enough. 

[hbmasa]

Ok, thank you much. This billet is about 1.25" and its a real bear to slice off every few inches to see how high its gone . Using angle grinder to cut.

Tx for helping

[Les L]

I agree with Jo Bai that it probably won’t weld at this time due to the scale built up in between the layers, but you can try it 

Don't try to turn your forge down, keep it at welding heat and keep rotating the cable until it is a full welding heat all the way through. As soon as it starts loosing color back in the forge and bring it back up to welding heat 

I would have started a thread in the general discussion “ need help welding cable “ or something similar and I think you would have received comments quicker 

[hbmasa]

Thank you sir. I never would have come up with just using the spin. Its a little short and i dont have any rebar attached so my channel locks get good work. The always forging at full  heat is a question thats always bothered me

I might have got quicker answers elsewhere but you guys are pure gold. Plus i havent been yelled at over here yet. And i owe swage advocates an apology.  I meant to say they dont work with cold metal but they work very well if metals hot.

 

How can i tell ive hit it enough in welding that i can just beat it? I can feel if its not, but cable has a longer memory than me.

Tx

[hbmasa]

Does the strands in pic 1 look too loose to be ok and the second pic shows where i cut it, found some wires, but now tried to reforge it. Does anything look noway. Pick 3 shows other half of pic two at cutting time. I posted pic above. Thanks guys. I got that done today at break 

I just tried flu and rapid rabbit hammers to close this end and thinks its at least way better.. why will slag pop off when i hammer it but not fall out from inside the braid. Wonder if the water pop would work

[Jo_Bai]

18 minutes ago, hbmasa said:

why will slag pop off when i hammer it but not fall out from inside the braid

The channel will be almost close. I still think that it's a lost chase.

Here as a reference. You should twist it more.

[hbmasa]

Should t try to twist the little billet now or will that just wash out the figure? I didnt get my initial twist that tight

Many thanks

Should i angle grind this billet or will i waste my time tx

[Jo_Bai]

You can twist it now if you want, then its more like regular twist Damascus. I just wanted to show you how the twist before welding should look like.

Grind it for fun, nothing to lose. Take the good pieces and make something out of it.

[Les L]

When welding you will feel a soft mushy hit with the hammer, with dull sounds, until it is completely welded, then you will start getting rebound from your hammer, a solid feeling like working a piece of bought steel, and you will start hearing a ring from the metal as your working it 

[hbmasa]

I SWEAR i had the stuff pinging in the dark the other night and in the morning nd it wasnt welded. Blew my mind. on a rr so i know i was hitting it. Turns out you 

 

you guys have been thorough and helped keep me grounded. THANK YOU GUYS.I could have produced this stump with 1.5" much 

Is yellow ok to hammer this stuff? Down to bright tangerine for welding?? (If its a real deep bright orange). My cable is supposed to be like or the same for 1084

Tx

[Jo_Bai]

9 hours ago, hbmasa said:

Is yellow ok to hammer this stuff? Down to bright tangerine for welding??

I don't know how the light is in your shop, so it's difficult to tell. Here is a video where you can see at around 4:20 what it should look like and what to look out for.
 

 

[hbmasa]

Is 420 a joke? Thats how my day is lit too. Do you know a lowest number in degrees to hammer cable. I heard it works below solid steel and have a degree/color chart im slowly learning. I know it doesnt like to start at margarine yellow. Color analysis gets better each time. I dont.

Thank you much sir.

I can make mine just as flat as pic and pinging but strands show back up before morning. Its just the forge for light so i can really see the billet.

Thanks

[swedefiddle]

4:20 is the time on the video, not the temperature.

If you start with smaller cable, you will figure out what works and how. The larger the cross-section needs welding heat in the center, to weld.

Neil

[hbmasa]

Im just trying to do something difficultand expensive with 2". I hope to one day find a natural calling if i look enough. Thanks for video timer heads up.

Tx

[FlatLiner]

Break your cable down into smaller strands while you are learning how to forge weld cable. That is what I did. I didn't use a v swage, I used the step between the cut plate and face to forge weld the cable. I only work it at a forge weld temperature until I know it it completely welded. It will go from soft and squishy to solid like any other round stock when it is welded. The thicker the cable the longer you want it to soak in the forge at forge weld heat to make sure it is at forge weld temperatures completely throughout the cable. Like others have said, weld the ends, heat the cable, untwist the cable to get flux all throughout the cable, retwist, reheat to forgeweld temperature and twist as tight as you can, reheat to forge weld temperature and continue to twist until you can't twist, reheat to forge weld temperature and start to forgeweld it by rotating it in the v swage the direction of the cable twist as you tap it lightly and quickly, reheat to forge weld temperature and continue the rotating and quick hits, eventually you will feel the cable going from soft and squishy to solid, the more solit it is the harder you can hit it. Work it at forge weld temperature until you are certain it is completely welded up. Rarely will you get it right in the first try.

[hbmasa]

How much am i trying to save this. Do i cut specifically around pices, lightly  ground the cold ahut. Im planning on welding the metal more as i go along. Do serious metalworkers do 100% as they go down the cable or can you do all the 2 lb hammer, then the 3lb. Then it should hold and a 4 lb would be used. This cable has appeared to appreciate time to settle. Or maybe i just start hotter each day than i finish.

Thanks

I know pic has cold shuts but theyre still 80% welded. Im gonna clean up billet more but dont know how 3d deep to go.im pretty sure 90% of strands valleys are all ok. How do i know im refining my weld and not just beating all the metal together. Is 13 psi way to low for a vevor store forge. It goes up to 30 psi but gas goes quick on that setting.

Id use smaller cable but im weaponed out so the only things i make are machetes for fun. I dont know what to with what for me would probably struggle to hit .25". With 2" i can lose a lot due to cold metal.

[hbmasa]

Is there any chance, 

My burned looking pieces are just cable not cleaned enough and by hammering the heat will overwhelm the lack of weld and will weld it together? I got up to 23 psi last night and got much farther closing the billet. The forge got white before i put the cable in. Im using a watch cause i cant look in forge with no metal even in it. ( thought metal gets brighter)

Thanks again

Today i repound, sand billet and then ill post pics

Happy weekend to all

[Frosty]

Turn your forge DOWN! That's so hot it'll be burning the outside of the cable before the center comes to welding temp. Try fluxing the cable when the forge is just hot enough to melt the flux and letting the cable come to welding heat while the forge heats up. The longer soak time will let the heat penetrate more deeply and being covered in flux should prevent serious decarb in the cable. 

Remember Cable is NOT a single piece of steel so it can NOT conduct heat very quickly, the heat has to cross all the voids between wire and wire so leave the forge just a LITTLE above welding temp and leave the cable be for maybe 3-4x as long as it'd take a solid bar to come to temp. Even after you've consolidated the cable, every gap means the center will be slower to heat than those farther out.

Frosty The Lucky.

[hbmasa]

By but it down you mean less psi?im pretty sure both sho definate cold suts. How is it this wont join when its only .80% of mass. I was gonna cut 3-4" sections for kniving. If i get back up to welding heat, using 3-4" pieces, can i not just beat the space out of it?. And what is the whole unravel thing. Ive lost about 8" off this billet due to 1 strand i could not get seated in my new melty cable i would have guessed the 2nd pic to be a bad weld but it came out fine.i think

. I know the fissures on the bottom delineate  where my forge has strand burned permanently

pr does this just meed a thorough pounding??thanks