Rate my beginner setup

[Steel Serpent Smithy]

Looking for advice on how I can improve my setup.  Last time I tried starting up the coal forge, I smoked up the entire backyard somehow.  Not sure if that was an issue with coal quality, technique, or the heavy wind that day.  Going to try charcoal next time, and then add bituminous little by little until I have plenty of coke.  The plastic bag covering the forge was intended to stop or slow down rusting since I can't get out every single day and don't feel like lugging it in and out of the shed.  I can't get out even on days I have time but that's a mental thing and not really relevant here.  It doesn't appear to have slowed down any rusting, especially since I sprinkled some water on the coal in the forge because I have seen a lot of people say it helps it coke up.  But it never got fully lit, so I guess the water never got burned off and just rusted it all up.  Not sure if a rusted firepot is fine to use, but that's a question for a different post.
My anvil is under the yellow apron.  Trying to prevent it from getting too rusty as well.  It's one of those blue harbor freight anvils that people say aren't the best.  But it, like most of my setup, was a generous gift from well meaning parents who are excited to see me interested in a craft.  Along with a vevor propane forge but that thing honestly kinda scares me.
My main concern with this setup is ventilation.  I know it looks like it should have a ton of ventilation.  More than enough, really.  But somehow when I tried starting a coal fire, I got smoked out.  Even with the wind, it was producing smoke faster than it was clearing out.  I had to run out of the shelter and up to the house.
I've done my due diligence with a google search with the "site:iforgeiron.com" tag, but didn't come up with a lot.  As usual, I've found unique ways to screw things up.
I've over-explained enough, for now, any thoughts?  Hints, tips?  Admonitions?

pics:

[George N. M.]

OK, some thoughts on starting a coal forge fire with minimum smoke:  The way I do it is smilar to starting a campfire, start with small and more flammable things and work up to larger and harder to start things.  I usually start with a sheet or 2 of wadded up newspaper (not wadded too tightly) and then stack kindling wood (dry and around the size of your finger or a pencil) around and on top of the newspaper.  You can use the "teepee" style of arrangine the kindling or the "log cabin" style.  I prefer the latter. Then, stack bits of thumb sized coal around and on the kindling.  Once the coal is in place you can light it from the bottom but if you want to over compensate or are unsure of your fire starting abilities you can add charcoal starting fluid to the paper, wood, and coal.  Once lit gradually apply air from the blower.  You want enough to make the fire hot but not so much pressure that it blows bits of burning material into the air.  As the coal bakes around the fire the volatiles are driven off and burned and the coal is converted to coke which looks puffier and lighter than the "green" coal and burns without smoke.  Properly done, you will get some wood and coal smoke at first but it quickly clears out and the coke burns with a clean flame and no smoke.

As the fire continues rake coke in from the edges of the fire, do not add green coal from the top.

Or, you can start with coke as your fuel and eliminate any smoke problems.  I started doing this years ago to avoid issues with my neighbors.  I live in a semi rural area now and could go back to coal but I have continued to use coke because it is what I am used to now.  I get mine at a farrier supply place.  Coke has some different problems in use than coal, basically that it is harder to light and keep lit.  You have to keep some air blast to it at all times or, at least, at frequent intervals.  You can't leave a coke fire for extended periods like you can a coal fire.  It will go out if left un attended and without any air blast.

I hope this helps.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Jo_Bai]

For me, the way to start a fresh fire without coal is building a good wood fire. I get the wood fire to burn well (use really dry stuff, so it will be smokeless), make it a lot bigger and start to put fresh coal at the edge. Because the wooden fire is burning, the smoke from the coal burns too. Then you put more coal on the edge and push the coal, that you put on first, more in the middle. If there is a gap in the middle where the flames from the wood can come up, it will eliminate the smoke. 

Does that make sense? I could make a short video if it is too difficult to wrap the head around it  

[Steel Serpent Smithy]

Thanks for the thorough description, George!  From what you're saying, I think part of my problem is that I piled green coal on top rather than let it bake on the sides.  Got impatient, I think.  I'm ready to start working and be done with trying to figure out how to start.  Would another method be starting a pile of charcoal and then baking the bituminous coal around that?  I don't really have kindling available, but I have natural lump charcoal and a chimney starter.

[Daswulf]

Rusted forge is fine to use. Rusted out takes longer but would not be fine, and is not likely to be a problem for you any time too soon.  Then again I have not seen the details of your solid fuel forge. Is it home made from plans or just sort of like a design you saw? Or is it a purchased one? 

You mention bituminous coal so that is what I assume you are using. Yes it can get smokey starting out but once you get a good forging fire going and you have banked coal being raked in from the sides it usually isn't bad. I do tend to get sootier using my out door demo forge than I do my home forge with a hood and stack. A hood and stack can be added to an outdoor forge. 

Watering down the coal isnt just something you do. There is a reason. That is if your banked coal is dry and it is burning instead of coking. Just dowsing water over your coal fire is pointless and bad unless you are trying to put it out quick for some odd reason. To normally put it out, just cut the air supply and spread out the coals and it will be out and cold quicker than you might think. 

 

No problem with starting a charcoal fire and adding coal. But, the coal Will still smoke as it cokes down.  Maybe a little at a time. No water In the fire pot. In fact leave it alone unless you see the coal outside the fire pot catching fire. Then just a sprinkle around the outside of the fire pot. 

I think you may have been smoking yourself out with the water. 

You do need to maintain a solid fuel fire. With coal when it has been burning, watch out for clinker buildup and poke it out and rake in the coal as needed from the edge of the pot where the coal has been heating and coking. 

Can we get better pics of your forge?

This is a fraction of info i have in mind but will be a start for now. 

 

 

[BillyBones]

I would move the blower closer to the forge. Seems a bit far away. 

I use coal. I also use charcoal to start my fire. I will soak a couple handfuls of lump charcoal with a bit of lighter fluid, not in my fire pot, it may be on the far side of caution but i do not think it a good idea to put lighter fluid down the tuyere. Light the charcoal and start pulling the coal around the fire so that it makes a "volcano". I like the charcoal also becuase it makes fire fleas, to many is to much air, none is not enough. The hole in the volcano makes a heat "jet" so to say, that heat will make the smoke from the coal get pulled towards it and burnt in the flame. Smoke is the unburned volatiles from the coal. The trick is to keep enough heat on top of the fire to combust the smoke. With that in mind it may help to put up some sort of wind block either walls or just around the forge itself. It will be easier to control the fire if you can control the wind direction. 

When i am done forging for the day i will also pile up some more coal and keep cranking my blower for a few minutes. That will make coke so that the next time i light my fire i have more coke to start with which will also reduce the amount of smoke put off.

One winter i had a freind come over and he was surprised i had a torpedo heater to heat my shop. He figured that since i had a fire that was hot enough to melt steel that my shop would be nice and toasty. I told him i did not want to heat the shop i wanted to heat the steel, so i wanted all the heat to stay in the fire not spread around the shop. Which is the reason i use a watering can. Coal fire will spread across your forge, i use the watering can to keep the fire in the fire pot and not burning 6" outside of it. That is just wasted fuel. 

Another tip on the water thing. When you are done never ever dump water on top of your fire in the fire pot. Scrape off the top and quench it yes but not in the fire pot. When water hits burning coal it turns to steam, that steam will bring out coal gas. That is the same gas that used to light houses and streets when gas lighting was a thing. That gas is heavier than air. It will build up in your ash dump till it reaches the bottom of your fire and then ignite. I have had flames shoot out of my blower before. That was in my early days of using coal and part of my learning curve, be wise learn from my mistake. 

[Michael]

On 12/19/2023 at 5:10 PM, Steel Serpent Smithy said:

Would another method be starting a pile of charcoal and then baking the bituminous coal around that?  I don't really have kindling available, but I have natural lump charcoal and a chimney starter.

This is how I start my coal/coke fire every time. About a half a chimney of lump charcoal, get that burning good and dump it in the firepot. Very gentle air and pile coal around the edges of the charcoal. The flames from the charcoal burn off the volatile gases from the coal as it 'cokes' up. When ever the fire gets smoky I'll knock small hole in the top of the fire to get a flame going and burn off the coal smoke. In a very residential suburban neighborhood.

[Steel Serpent Smithy]

On 12/19/2023 at 9:08 PM, Daswulf said:

Can we get better pics of your forge?

Hey folks, thanks for all the tips!  I'm glad I was on the right train of thought with the lump charcoal.  Sorry I've taken so long to reply, I've been in a bit of a funk and kept thinking about giving up on this project.  Really wanted to have it all figured out and ready to make stuff for friends & family by Christmas time, and it didn't end up happening, and it was extremely discouraging.  But I'm over it now.  Talking to folks here is always helpful for that.
Anyway...
I went outside and took some closer pics earlier.  I also dug out the firepot since it was full of green coal.  I've moved the blower closer and it is definitely more comfortable, just from mock testing.  The ammo can is what I'm using as a quench tank.  Just water for now.  The budget has run out, so no quench oil for high carbon items yet.  Was surprised how expensive that stuff gets.  I have another ammo can ready for it when I get some, though.  Going to paint them different colors to differentiate them at a glance.
And to answer Dawsulf's question, the forge is a rivet forge from Centaur Forge.  Also got the hose and blower from them.  A lot of other stuff was thrifted or purchased locally.  Even the stump came from someone local.  I tried to purchase locally as much as possible when figuring out my setup.  It just feels right for this sort of project.  I went with the rivet forge so I would have more budget for material.  I don't plan on working on anything large for a long time, so it made the most sense to me.

[Shainarue]

Everyone has solid advice for starting/maintaining your fire with less smoke but I just wanted to pipe in on advice for clearing the smoke should it happen again. Because this happened to me a lot when I started as well (I still to this day get impatient and throw green coal on there, lol) - except my forge was just outside the shed door and the smoke would fill up in the shed where my anvil was. While your enclosure isn't closed on the sides, it does still have a roof that can trap the smoke.

If you have a way to run an extension cord to run a small fan - or if you have a battery operated fan - set that at the base of your forge pointing up/out of the enclosure - away from the forge. You can also try mounting the fan in the rafters/frame of the roof and blow out. That might work by sucking the smoke up away from you and blowing out from the enclosure. 

If possible, also move your forge just outside the overhang when forging. Or get/make a hood with smoke stack that can carry the smoke outside the enclosure. 

In my case, I started with the fan. I set it just in front of the doorway pointing up. Made for a nice breeze to cool me off as well, lol. Eventually I got around to making the hood and then I was able to get rid of the fan and was crazy impressed with how much it reduced the amount of smoke! 

[BillyBones]

I would get a bigger bucket for the water than an ammo can. I use a 30gal. barrel for a slack tank. I got mine from the local transmission shop for free. Not only can you use it to cool your work and tools but if you have a fire, tipping it over can help. Which also brings me to ask where is your fire extinguisher? 

Get rid of that plastic bucket under your forge. You can pick up metal buckets from the local hardware store pretty cheap. Or if you can still find one, tar, paint, and grease used to come in 5gal metal buckets. Plastic and hot ash/coals do not mix well. 

Your water is fine for use until your start forging high carbon. If you go with a larger container such as the 30gal barrel, you will want to leave it in place and not refill it everytie you use it. If you do drop a piece of copper pipe or bar, what ever into it. The copper will keep algae and the like from growing. A bit of veg oil in the water will make a film on top that will keep mosquitos from breeding in it. 

It looks as if you also have a couple pavers of cinder brick under you anvil stand. Take this from my own experience, get rid of them. Eventually, and a lot sooner than you may think, the continued hammering on your anvil will cause them to break. You would be much better off with a couple pieces of 4x4 or 2x4 under it. 

Overall though i would say you are well on your way to getting a working smithy up and running. Just a few tweaks and lessons to learn but we were all there at one time in our journey. And still are, there is always something to learn. As my drill sgt. used to say, A day that you do not learn something is a wasted day. 

[George N. M.]

I only use a 3 gallon bucket for a slack tub because when the shop is going to be below freezing temperatures it is easy to toss the watter out the door.  I'd love to use a half wooden barrel or a large metal barrel but they are too heavy when full to easily move around.  I may have to have a winter and a summer slack tub.  And, yes, metal is better than plastic every day but the last time I bought a galvanized bucket at the hardware store it was, IIRC, about $18 which was a case of sticker shock.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Frosty]

If you're burning charcoal you want a side blast forge not a bottom blast like you have set up now. Coal burns fine in a side blast forge so you aren't limiting yourself.

At this point in the game you shouldn't even be /thinking about "quenching" steel let alone worrying about different quench oils. You should aim high but there's a reasonable limit. You need to build your basic skills, hammer control, fire management are top two and you'll get plenty of practice with what you have now. Anvil, forge and a couple hammers. A pair or two of tongs are nice but not necessary, not really. Pick up a few yard / garage, etc. sale chisels and every allan (hex) wrench you see for cheap. Chisels to cut stock if you see a large masonry chisel for cheap they make excellent hardies. Allan wrenches are excellent quality medium-high carbon steel and are perfect for making punches, chisels, etc. I start guys off with chisels and punches to introduce them to tool steel.

A JABOD forge is an excellent forge all round and if you're on a budget perfect. You CAN find a wooden or steel box can't you? From that all you need is a little steel pipe, something to drill or cut a hole for the pipe and some clayey soil to pack in the box. If you check into the JABOD threads here you'll see all kinds of modifications, some very slick, some just so someone can say they have a "design of their own. Not that that's a bad thing but you only need a trench cut in soil with the air blast entering the side an inch or two off the bottom. 

If you have clear ground you can dig a trench, if not or you want to put it away or move it around the JABOD is . . . "perfect".  

Oh yeah, a "quench" tank. I vote for a smallish metal pail though if you cut a piece of steel to armor your plastic bucket and are careful enough it'll work till you goof. I've been using a 3gal rubber stock bucket for a couple decades and it's holding up better than the steel pails I've killed over the years. s

What you want, even need a bucket of water for is mostly to keep the parts of your tool you hold cool, prevent overheating chisels and punches used in HOT steel and to control fire. You WILL be sending HOT bits and flakes off into the area around you so you need a way to prevent a B A D thing. Staying alert and learning what burning grass, paper, cardboard, your PANTS, etc. etc. smells like is really  important. Having a dipper or old cup hanging on or by the water bucket will serve nicely for 99.9% of the little smolders you WILL start.

Ahhhh, that's enough for now, it's Christmas eve and I have dinner to make and packages to wrap after I've dug them out of my hiding place. Literally, they're in the pickup and it's been snowing pretty steadily for several days. I'll probably get to do some plowing tomorrow. <sigh>

Merry Christmas all!

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

Steel Serpent, one thing neither you nor any previous responders, including myself, is PPE.  Personal protection equipment is a very basic and fundamental item for blacksmithing.  Everything in a blacksmith shop is hot, heavy, or sharp and sometimes 2 or all 3 of those attributes.  So, you need to protect yourself and anyone who comes into the shop while you are working.  

Probably the most fundamental safety item is an apron.  Leather is the best but heavy cotton fabric/canvas can work.  This protects your body and your clothing from flying bits of hot metal, sparks, and anything else that is flying around.  Some, particularly farriers like waist high aprons that are split in front so that they can be used like chaps.  Many folk, myself included, like bib type aprons which will protect your chest area.

Next is eye protection.  If you don't already wear glasses you need a pair of safety glasses or googles.  Getting a spark or a small piece of metal in your eye is not a fun experience.

Hearing protection, either muffs or ear plugs, is for when you are using something LOUD like various power tools.  I do not use it when forging but some folk may.

If you are doing something that puts out lots of fine particles, sanding, grinding, etc. be sure to wear some sort of respirator.  Even a surgical mask is better than nothing.  Grinding is a particularly bad source of things that should not go into your lungs.

Shoes and clothing:  Avoid synthetic materials because they will melt and stick to your skin when exposed to heat making any burn much worse.  This is true for shirts, pants, sox, etc..  Polyester is not as bad as nylon which melts and sticks easily.  Shoes shoud be leather, not synthetic running or other type of shoes.  I will admit that I sometimes violate this myself, it is hard to remember to change your regular shoes when going out to the shop.  If it is not too hot L like long sleeved shirts, often flannel, to protect my forearms from hot bits and sparks.

Oh, if you ever put sides onto you shop a carbon monoxide detector is a must.

Other folk may have more suggestions.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[BillyBones]

First i would like to say my way is not THE way, it is what works for me. Take what advice or suggestions you get and make them work for you. 

Geroge, $18!!!! good greif. I think the one i bought was around $5. 

Spot on about PPE. Get it, use it. 

Since winter has arrived i find myself working in long sleeves now. I do not know if it would be considered PPE but i now know why you see pics of the old time craftsmen wearing sleeve garters. The cuffs of my shirt get wrapped around my tongs when i turn them, caught on my vice handle, etc. I am constantly pushing them up. I am looking at them now like i would wearing ties, necklaces, long hair, etc. around machinery. 

I have met a couple smiths who wear wooden shoes. I myself prefer steel toed work boots, but i also wear those boots everywhere i go, even when i go to Mass. I honestly do not even know where my tennis shoes are at, if i still own a pair. 

[George N. M.]

Billy, how long ago did you last buy a metal bucket?  You may be in for the same unpleasant surprise I was.  It makes scrap buckets like those used for grease and solvents much more attractive.  Unfortunately, even many of those have gone to plastic.  The only common metal ones any more are 1 gallon paint cans.  Even larger quantities of paint are in plastic.

If it wasn't for freezing issues I would buy a half wooden barrel and fill it with the garden hose.

GNM

[Frosty]

I have to disagree about the MOST important piece of PPE being an apron. Most certainly NOT, it's EYE protection. I can heal up from or suffer the consequences of lots of injuries an apron protects from much better than losing an eye.

Eyes FIRST, always.

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

I agree with Frosty about degree of importance.  I was probably thinking that the commonest form of PPE is the apron.  I have worn glasses since I was about 12 and, so, eye protection is pretty automatic with me.  I only think of additional eye protection  if I am doing something with a higher than average amount of stuff flying around my face or lots of sparks.

GNM

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I no longer have my prescription safety glasses after having my Blacksmith cataracts removed and lens implants installed. I have to really think about putting on safety glasses now.

[Steel Serpent Smithy]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:30 AM, Shainarue said:

While your enclosure isn't closed on the sides, it does still have a roof that can trap the smoke.! 

This is exactly what happened!  I had to bail out because the entire enclosure filled up really fast!  I actually haven't been out there since because of that experience.  I have multiple fans and the enclosure has a bunch of hooks I could hang one on.  So I'll give that a try.
From what everyone's saying, I have a few tweaks to make but overall it's a solid start.  I have plenty of all the PPE listed.  I even got several sets of all-cotton outfits for the dangers that George listed.  I just need to remember to take the extinguisher out with me.  Really just need to purchase one to dedicate to it.
And about the pavers under the stump, I put them there so that the stump wouldn't be resting on the ground to prevent rot.  Would 2x4's accomplish the same thing?  I guess they would if they were treated lumber, right?
I'll have to look into metal buckets.  Apparently a nearby auto shop is selling barrels.  Drove past and the missus said she thought that's what the sign said.  Wasn't a good spot to turn around and we were ready to get home, though.  So I'll probably look them up and call for more info. 

I just need to get out there and practice and learn, now.  For some reason I am extremely nervous and anxious about it and I keep thinking I should just cut my losses and move on.  I know once I get started actually making stuff that feeling will go away.  It's all the prepping and planning and initiating that drives me nuts!  Just getting out there and starting is the hardest part for me.  The missus is pestering me to just get started because she's seen how much I enjoyed it when we took that class together.  It's good weather today so I'm going to push myself to get out there.

Thanks for all the guidance, y'all!

[Jo_Bai]

6 minutes ago, Steel Serpent Smithy said:

It's good weather today so I'm going to push myself to get out there.

That's great, do it. Please report how the smoke situation was this time with all the tips! I hope you have a great day at the forge.

[George N. M.]

Get out there and hit hot metal.  Make something like an S or J hook.  Experiment with your stance and how you hold the hammer to see what feels best.  Use a plastic bowl for a slack tub.  Just get the metal hot and hit it.  That is the essence of blacksmithing.  Everything else will fade in importance.  Your wife sounds like a wise woman, listen to her.

Let us know how it goes.

George