Bentiron1946 Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 (edited) I have five dogs that know they own the place and that I happen to just feed them. If you don't feed them on a daily basis you don't belong to pack and you had better stay out of the packs territory (yard). They have been trained to not bark over trivial matters so they have surprised a few that have venture on the property uninvited. They left rather quickly without anything in their hands other then something wet and smell, wait that was in their shorts.. If anyone needs good dogs the pounds are full of them that need homes and they will repay you will love and loyality for some food. All of mine are pound puppies(adult dogs, havent had a puppy for a long time now). Edited October 3, 2008 by Bentiron1946 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 (edited) I have two dogs that stay in the house with us. They slept right through the whole thing. We still love'em. Cami, we recently sent two engineers to Moscow to meet with our corporate counterparts. One is an American, one is Canadian. They were mugged in Red Square and lost about $850 combined. The Canadian withdrew, refused to go out again, and would not talk about it to the authorities. The American went out for breakfast, chatted with the authorities for 2 hours, and wrote the whole thing off as just a bad experience. What does not kill us makes us stronger. It is rare for anyone to be touched by crime if you exercise a bit of good sense. I am talking about the first time in 61 years I have been the victim of a crime. America is not as violent as you would think, though. Too many of us carry guns and know how to use them on the bad guys. Sadly I could not expect the same to be true in Canada. Edited October 3, 2008 by Quenchcrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Time for dog number 3 and this one is for the garage. Train him to not leave it even if you leave the door up.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cami Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Quenchcrack, it's too bad your men had trouble, and it's too bad one of them was a sensitive type. We keep the best folks for ourselves and a lot of the people we export are actually factory seconds I have to agree with what you say about armed citizens. Were I a criminal, I certainly would think twice about robbing a store if the clerk and shoppers were armed. It would certainly help to keep people honest, if not polite. My only concern is if this causes problems to escalate; with each side upping the ante. Anyway.... Do any of you guys keep geese? I had family in the UK with geese and I would defy anybody to sneak up on their place. Security, eggs, and meat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I would offer that crime has been around for a while and the good ol days of leaving things unlocked were more about the citizenry than the time. I live in town and we have no troubles at all in this neighborhood, now that the druggies on the corner are gone. And since college students quit renting the duplexes behind us (too many police officers coming around I guess ) the nights are peaceful again. I'd really like to have an old Mossberg M&P with the bayonet lug and extended magazine as a primary defense weapon. For if it is ever needed, it is needed in a hurry. QC good thought on switching to lighter shot. Up close even rat shot acts as a single frangible slug while at range won't penetrate sheet rock. goose shot is a nice balance of range vs penetration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted October 4, 2008 Author Share Posted October 4, 2008 Cami, you mean folks like Ann Murray and Rich Little are factory seconds? Mills, my M500 is so old it has a walnut stock! The 00 buck does have the advantage of being able to shoot around corners...OK, through corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 LOL! Yessiree bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Beuler Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Quench are you sure you left the door open? Maybe it was that you had it closed and just unlocked. Very nice to see that you have a neighbor who was looking out for you. I lived for five years in the rural southern tier of New York in very poor Allegany county where the budget is such that the sheriff's dept. has no road patrols, they just guard the jail & courthouse and deliver warrants. It is the state police who respond to calls and they are few and far between. Only a fool thinks that calling 911 in an emergency is going to save you because the reality is that yes, a trooper will respond but he is typically at least 10 minutes away over bad roads. "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition"... BTW- was that mexican kid a U.S. citizen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 (edited) Dan, normally my wife sets the alarm and she peeks out into the garage to make sure the door is closed. I set the alarm that night and forgot about closing the door (the big overhead door). I cannot complain about the Harris County Constables response. They had two cars on the scene in minutes when we told them the suspect was still in the neighborhood. Yeah, the guy across the street is a good neighbor and we thanked him with a $100 gift card to, where else, Walmart. I don't know if the burglar is a citizen or not. His name sounded like a Mexican National but I don't really know. Ya know, it is a shame that we are losing the battle on crime, failing to rebuild our infrastructure, have starving kids and families without insurance because the rest of the free world relies on the US to field the only credible army left to protect our civilization. Now we get to bail out Wall Street so the rest of the world won't suffer too much. You know what I'd like to do with that army, don't you? Edited October 5, 2008 by Quenchcrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollhammer Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I don't have much of a problem with people snooping about my place after the last kid I caught in the yard. Apparently he warned his buddies and they keep a wide berth of my little kingdom. I'm carry a concealed weapon at all times, have a .45 on my truck seat, a 9mm in my desk drawer at work, and a pile for rifles and shotguns in easy access. I've never had to actually fire any of them in self-defense, but my .45LC sure put the fear in some hood rats downtown once or twice. I guess staring down a barrel that's almost as big as your thumb isn't much fun. There are alternitives to regular ammo. There's a company that sells 'less than lethal' ammo. Bean bags, rubber bullets, rubber shot, etc. The catalog I have is from Firequest, I think, and they have 12gauge, 45, and 9mm...I think. I can't remember all the details. They also have the oddball rounds for 12gauge, such as: flechette, bolos, flamethrower, capsicum, etc. The flamethrowers and exploding rounds are loads of fun at BBQ's. Mickey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Wow, Firequest has some very odd, agressive, and expensive ammunition for shotguns. I don't think any of it is useful indoors, though. Walmart has 15 rounds of 00 buck for $9 which is about right for my budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjbrash Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Recc by a police friend and some others to me was 12 gauge #4 shot. You are responsible for anything going down range. #4 will penetrate an interior wall, but not an exterior. Have not conducted the experiment yet. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keykeeper Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) Better watch the flechette rounds. They scream "intent to kill". They are anti-personnel ammo without a doubt. I think the military developed them. Severe liability issues exist with their use for self-defense. rjbrash: #4 is good, as there's more lighter pellets concentrated into the area, creating a severe traumatic would cavity. Penetration will vary with walls, depending on construction, which is something to consider for any self-defense ammunition. 00 Buck can be used if you are experienced in its delivery, and have the proper weapon for delivery. I like tactical 00 buck rounds, more pellets, less powder. Better for up close and personal use. But, what everyone reading this has to remember is that laws on personal defense vary from state to state. Some states have "castle laws", some states have "immediate and unavoidable injury or death to self or others" type laws. I don't think I'd ever resort to lethal force to protect personal property. No one likes being the mark for a robbery, but I'm sure losing some stuff is better than years of court hearings and attorney's fees defending shooting someone over property only or worse criminal charges that could bind you up for life (literally). Stuff is stuff, life is life. Know the laws of self-defense for your state or country. It also doesn't hurt to be able to show the authorities that you are a responsible gun owner/user and have some sort of training to that extent. Hard for an attorney to argue you were reckless is taking some scuzzbag's life when you have x amount of paperwork for a self-defense course or lethal force course, which teach shoot/no shoot situations. Situations vary as to circumstance of the threat. In my home, if the perpetrator is coming down the hall, I, nor my family, have nowhere else to retreat. IF I can't take them down by hand (assuming they are unarmed) then the worst may come. "I Pity the fool", to quote Mr. T!;) Edited October 7, 2008 by keykeeper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollhammer Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Quenchcrack, you're right , that stuff is really expensive. I hadn't ordered anything from them for a couple of years, and looked 'em up last night. Geez! Especially for the novelty rounds. I guess I won't be gettting anymore of those, since any extra cash I have is being funneled directly back into my addiction...er I mean blacksmithing. Mickey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 There seems to be as many "recommendations" for they type of shot shell as there are types of shot shells. I have heard 4 shot, 1 shot, 00 buck, 1 buck, goose, and so on. Load according to your degree of paranoia and ability to shoot under pressure. I have unloaded the Bushmaster and the Ma Duce, and the RPG's are back in the cases. A/P mines will be removed soon. :-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 My SSIL recomended bird loads for use in the house, for the most likely ranges involved they are quite nasty; yet the "intent" is a lot less than even a 00 "hunting" load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Don't forget guys, in many states pointing even an empty gun at someone is considered application of deadly force. As already said, know your laws. A very interesting website, with semi-scientific food-for-thought (especially if your house is made of drywall) The Box O' Truth - The Box O' Truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Texas has some fairly liberal home defense laws. Anyone who comes into your house un-invited can be the focus of deadly force. Even if they run out of the house carrying stolen goods, you can shoot to kill. As I said earlier, I do not consider theft or burglary a capital offense. That said, how do you determine a persons intention? Do I get time to reload my shotgun with less lethal loads if the person is just a common thief? If I have birdshot in my gun out of consideration for my neighbors, do I run the risk of exposing my family to the other guys deadly force because I did not put him down with one shot? Goes back to my first post: stay alert and be a good neighbor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Low voltage lighting helps with deterring thieves. The last thing they want is to be seen by a neighbor or passer by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Chris, we have a coach light on either side of the big garage door and they come on automatically at dusk. The street light is right across the street. Even with that, there was almost nobody to see him in action except one neighbor who happened to come home at the right time. I could leave the light on in the garage, though. Maybe I can find a "nightlight" that would put out enough light to illuminate the inside of the garage. Then, if I left the door open, everybody could see all the stuff inside. I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keykeeper Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I only posted to be helpful, but I can tell from the replies after my post no one takes what I wrote seriously. So, get out the Bushmaster, stoke it up with tracer rounds, what the heck, through some flamethrower rounds in the shotgun, shine up those RPG's and give the neighbors a fireworks show next time some creep thieves ya. Might even charge admission to help defray defense costs of the scuzzwad's family's civil suit. Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war, or some xxxx like that. Just trying to give real world advice, is all, but I can tell it fell on deaf ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Laws differ depending on where you live. It is a personal decision to engage a thief, not knowing if they are hopped-up on drugs, have a gun, a buddy in the shadows, or who knows what. I am not sure we can solve this problem, and I am not sure any advice we would give in this matter would be good advice or the proper advice for someone else. One thing for sure, make a list of your tools and serial numbers as it will be needed by both the police and the insurance company. A photograph each tool will go a long way in identification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Keykeeper, I took your post to be reasoned and well advised. Nobody on my side of the keyboard is advocating unbridled chaos in response to a trespasser. I do not have your apparent facility with hand-to-hand combat and have to resort to the great equalizer. It is my decision, my choice. I really do hope that I never have to make that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keykeeper Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I guess I jumped the gun, just found some sarcasm in your post about the RPG's. Unfortunately, I do have a little training in proper force escalation and physical control techniques. Hazard of the job, I guess. I wasn't advocating going unarmed into a potentially life threatening situation to anyone not properly trained. Just to know what can and can't be done for the sake of everyone involved. Everyday I go to work wondering which creep or crazy might try to take my life, simply because of the badge I wear or if things don't go their way. Tends to keep one in a heightened condition of preparedness for threats. Unfortunately, that theme tends to spill over into every law abiding citizens lives, at an ever increasing rate. Such is the state of our society. I hope I never have to make that decision either, Quenchcrack. Really, really hope I don't. Hope you don't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 Keykeeper, Yeah there was some sarcasm in that post but not directed at you. It is just an observation that we all tend to get a bit paranoid about self-defense. I guess we should sum it up: 1. Be aware. 2. Be prepared. 3. Be a good neighbor. 4. Lock yer flippin' doors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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