Atticka Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I'm following the basic rules to get started: Something to heat up the iron -Washtub charcoal forge (to be built) Something to hold the hot Iron -TBD Something to hit the iron with -Cross Pein 2lb Something to hit the iron on -TBD (see below) I was toying with the idea of picking up a 6" square by 12" long piece of metal as a starter anvil (122lbs) and setting it in a stump or cement. I'm looking at the following from this company (located in Canada)http://www.metalsupermarkets.com Hot Rolled Carbon Steel square Grade: ASTM - A36 / CSA G40.21 44W (I don't know what this means?) Is this a suitable grade steel? What grade would be best? I'm not ruling out a traditional anvil if I can find a deal on one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nett Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I understand that if you place that hunk of steel in a bucket of sand you will dampen a lot of the noise. I would suggest you scrounge free scrap iron to practice and play with while you learn some basic skills before paying big bucks for store bought steel. Look behind hardware stores, auto repair shops, vacant lots, industrial parks. Heck, you can do a lot with a large bolt or even some pole spikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnW Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Although it's been explained dozens of times, I can't tell you exactly what A36 means, but about all hot rolled steel bars available today from new steel suppliers is A36. google for it. Yes, 6" x 12" block of A36 soundly anchored would work great for hammering steel upon. Don't do it unless you're rich. Rather, look at every junk yard in Montreal until you find one where you can buy scrap, especially walk around and buy scrap. Then visit it periodically (more frequently if they move steel quickly) until you find a good piece of steel. You're likely to find a round (cylindrical) piece sooner than a square piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalliferous Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 A36 is a mild steel with around .3% carbon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I'm not sure what you are considering a good deal on an anvil, or how serious you are about learning smithing, but there is a couple of ads on Kijiji Montreal with anvils for sale. They are not cheap, but if you are in the position, and can afford it, they are an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Don't pay new steel price. Find one for scrap steel price and use the difference to buy good tongs! A chunk of large forklift tine is another suggested starter anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scratch Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 If you're looking for just a chunk of steel to use until you find an anvil, Don't buy new... There's probably a steel seller or warehouse somewhere in your area. Go there and ask to look in there "drop" section for a chunk like that. It'll be much cheaper. Or you could always go with the "chunk of rail" option for now. It'll at least get you started. An anvil will come, keep your eyes open. I placed an ad in my local "farmers" classified that gets mailed out once a month. I got two anvils, and a bunch of tongs and hardies out of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticka Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share Posted September 10, 2008 Thanks for the advice everyone! Problem is I'm not familiar with many machine shops in the city and I'll be limited to weekend foraging. I didn't think new steel would be that expensive, I'm looking for something suitable in the $100 to $200 range, around 100lbs ($1-$2 per lbs range) for an anvil. The price on the 122lb piece (cold rolled 1018, I called and this is what they have in stock) is $280CDN, I could shorten the spec and have an 80lb piece for $185 and it would make a decent anvil. I can lay the piece on its side and make a nice 8x6 surface to work on, or I can stand it up and set it in sand as well. Also possible to machine various corners and edges for added versatility and drill a pritchell hole for punching. I think I'm selling myself here.... I'm still keeping an eye out for good old anvil of course....or any other hard metal surface that would do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Falzone Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Atticka, If your price range is between $100-200, it is within the realm of possibility to find a 100lb anvil within that range, and a CHUNK of steel makes a perfectly good anvil in the meantime (all the master swordsmiths in Japan have been using block anvils for hundreds of years (no horns). But everyone is right, save your money and maybe grow it a bit and keep looking for that great anvil deal (they happen, but you have to hunt for them). In the mean time look for a big chunk of scrap steel to work on. The junk yards and scrap metal yards are the perfect place to start. Things like chunks of RR track, fork-lift forks, or cuttings (drops) from steel mills will work great until you find your anvil. In the mean time check out flea markets, auctions, websites, put out adds in some local bulletin boards, heck ask around at some high schools or tech schools (a lot of school shops are getting shut down and you may find a school willing to sell you their old anvil). Look for a local blacksmith association or group in your area and sign up, - membership often has priviledges like insider information and sweet deals or trades. There are lots of options, and if you give yourself some time and try all possibilities, something may come up. If you have friends in a near-by town or province, you could even recruit them to help you look in their area - be sure to make your price range perfectly clear. If they score, you could always drive out to pick it up on a weekend. Good luck Happy hunting. Aeneas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDJ Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I recently bought a 400# steel plate that was about 13'' wide by 2'' thick and I can't remember'' long for USD $0.30 per #. That would be what you are looking at if you can find a scrap yard. Your prices may vary but you can still find a MUCH better deal than buying new. Scrap and drops dose not mean old car parts necessarily the plate I bought was a drop from a full size plate that the original project didn't need. Fabrication shops do not need the drops just laying around rusting and taking up valuable space so they sell it to scrap yards. Most steel suppliers sell sections of plate and bar that has been ''dropped'' as a result of a cut off for a special order. The special order customer dosen't need or want the drop, the steel supplier knows they will likely never find a customer needing a special order that just happens to be in the size range of the drop, so they are willing to sell the drop at scrap prices just to keep them from having to transport it to the scrap yard where they would only get a few $ per 100# instead of the $0.30 a customer would buy it for. ($0.30 per# used as an example, some steel yards here are as much as $0.50 #) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I just googled centaur forge. they have a couple of new anvils under $300. They are a bit high I believe. There are horsehoeing suppliers all over the world, and most of them have new and some of them have used anvils. Keep an eye out for anything you can to beat on..save yourmoney for an anvil. 1018 is mild steel and will dent and ding..not a bad thing while you are learning but your needs will outgrow that block really soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnW Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Finding a suitable scrap yard might present some difficulties. Probably the majority of junk yards aren't interested in selling you a piece of steel, or letting you walk around to find one, or talking to you. Around this part of the country these type business tend to close at noon on Saturday. But finding a good junk dealer is worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticka Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share Posted September 10, 2008 Thats what I was thinking JohnW, I'm guessing most scrap yards know the value of their steel. I found a number of steel manufacturing and scrap yards....I'm going to start sending out some emails tomorrow to see if anyone has a piece or a junk pile I can poke around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishdaddy Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 i have acess to a lot of different steel railroad steel car springs stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Perhaps one of the first skills needed in smithing is the art of scrounging. If you have the money to buy that hunk of new steel you got money to buy an anvil. If you ain't got the money you need to scrounge like a homeless dog looking for it's next meal.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticka Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share Posted September 10, 2008 Too true! Not only are new anvils expensive, but can you imagine shipping one of those things across the border? yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Couldn't agree more with Bentiron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longhunter Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I was quoted a price of 140.00 to ship a 160# anvil from one of the suppliers, thats from them to the freight haulers dock then i would have to pick it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLOB Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 3.5" dia x 35" long 1045 ground polished shaft for $128"Yarde drop zone I've been happy with my dealings with Yarde. they inventory their drops and offer them for sale online. I dont know how the shipping would be but it might be worth checking into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 The anvil stand design in The Backyard Blacksmith not only gives you an adjustable stand, but it's sturdy, heavy, adjustable, and absorbs all the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticka Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 Just emailed three steel shops/yards in Montreal to see of they have any scrap hanging around. Fingers crossed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 This morning I was over on the east side of town for a Dr. appointment and stopped by a company that sells only new steel and ask what a new section of cold rolled 6"X6"X12" steel would cost? I almost passed out! It was a mere $397.28 including tax and cutting fee. I think for that price I could buy a mighty fine brand new anvil.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnW Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 (edited) Atticka, I think you're kind of missing the scrap yard owner attitude. You said they know the value of their steel. Yes they do. It's not worth much, it's scrap. If somebody's throwing away a new 200 pound anvil, well then that's a 200 pound piece of steel. I guess they will pay about $16 for it, and my scrap dealer would sell it to me for about $32. Now for the most part, junk dealers don't have time sell you a piece of steel, nor do they have much interest in talking to you. I know I wouldn't be too interested in strangers coming to visit me at my office. Now, someplace out there in Montreal, there's people that will sell you steel at scrap prices and give you steel just to carry it away. Mostly, this is just a friendly thing to do, so you probably want to make face contact, not e-mail contact. Edited September 12, 2008 by JohnW spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticka Posted September 12, 2008 Author Share Posted September 12, 2008 You make a good point. I'm not targeting junk yards though. I'm contacting steel shops that do fabrication and steel suppliers that do custom orders. Ideally, these businesses might have a piece ready to send off to a scrap dealer that they may be willing to put aside for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I agree nuttin like face to face .....once it gets around that u bang steel ....they will drop stuff off to ya....for your forge u oughta look at the 55 forge ....2 steel barrels and a firepot thats it and thats all works great and easy to set up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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