Trouble dialing in new propane forge....

[ForgingChaos]

I bought a CastMaster Elite 2 burner. Hooked it up to a brand new 40gal propane tank but I cannot tell if it is working properly because I can smell propane when it's on and there are no instructions for the air intakes (how open should they be?) And for how to adjust the burners in side(should they be as low as possible?)

 

Should the propane be on full? It has a regular to dial in but I don't know how to tell when it is working properly....

[Mikey98118]

I'm sorry to say that you won't like anything I point out. First of all, this is an also ran no name brand. I looked up this forge on the Net, and found that the photos are photo-shopped. The tool that they featured in them is for casting--not forging. Everything about it is super cheap; that includes the regulator, which is likely meant for a barbecue grill, which means that it has a built-in flow limiter. Is there any way that you can send it back and buy a Mister Volcano? Otherwise, you and we will will need to go through everything about it, just to get it running.

[ForgingChaos]

Thanks. I actually got it for $65 on eBay. I was just bidding on a chance and won it. So I figured I'd give it a go. This is the model:

Commercial link removed per TOS.

After I posted yesterday I did get some metal moving. I cranked the propane and the regulator (up to 20psi) and fiddled with the air intakes until I could kind of hear the harrier jet engine and got my 5160 up to cherry red. It didn't seem to want to get any hotter than that. I didn't push it any further. I was just happy to find a situation where it was heating.  It got my metal hot enough to work, but never got to yellow, so idk about forge welding. 

Thanks for your post I think it is just going to be really finicky to get it up to the correct temp. Once I have found the setting I might be good. I'm also doing this in my garage with the door open so there's a slight breeze towards the opening of the forge I am not sure if I am having issues because the oxygen mix is uneven. 

There's basically three adjustment points on this unit. The first is the burner tube and how far into the forge it is inserted. It goes almost to the "floor" at the bottom, and way above the insulation at the top. I have it set about 1.25" out of the insulation with about 1.5" room beneath it. Maybe it needs to be further down? Or just poking out from the insulation? Idk

 

The second adjustment is the air intake which is actually really clever the tube has multiple air holes and depending on how you spin the slide you can expose more or less and then go up and down for more or less oxygen too. I tried to keep them both the same. I am really just not sure how to tell if there is too much oxygen or just enough....and which one burns hotter?

 

 

 

The third adjustor is the regulator and that is simple enough. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Mod30
Commercial link removed per TOS

[Brian Hibbert]

Welcome aboard!

Move the burner tube back up so it's maybe 1/4" above the insulation.  leaving it out will burn the ends off the tube.  

From the photos it looks like you don't have any coating on the insulation.  You should look at some of the refractory threads and get a rigidizer on the insulation followed by cast refractory. The rigidizer helps firm up the insulation and keep the fibers in place and the cast refractory and IR coatings provide a solid wall and reflactive surface to keep the heat inside the forge.  Plain insulation probably isn't retaining enough heat.   My Mr. Volcano came with rigidizer and  "Satanite" cast refrractory so that's what I used, but there are better combinations.  Again there are many discussions here.

There are also lengthy discussions on gas forges and burners.  Some of the talk about how to tell if you fuel air mixture is good. 

 

If you are trying to search the site, google works well if you add Ste: www.iforgeiron.com to the end of your search.  

 

 

[Mikey98118]

If you managed to get the regulator up to twenty PSI, it has no built-in flow limiter. That is good. A series of holes as air ducts is your next problem. Move the choke out of the way, and see if there are any holes in line. If you find some, than cutting between them to create air slots should improve burner performance. Finally, the tip of the gas tube's orifice should be between 3/8" and 1/4" away from the forward end of a burner's air openings, if your burner has a movable gas tube.

However, if your two burners are 3/4" size, I would advise simply replacing them with Mister Volcano burners ($25 each and worth every penny).

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

Did you try it with one burner or two?

Neil

[ForgingChaos]

Hello using both burners. 

After a lot of reading I am still unsure if I am getting the correct temps. I am heating metal and working it. I read that you want to heat to red and no further then I see forged in fire and they're working metal effectively at orange/yellow almost forge welding temps. I'm definitely not getting that hot I'm not seeing yellow in the material. 

I am going to try moving the burners up. As someone else pointed out they are getting burned on the ends. 

I am still going to try to get the mixture right I think. Going to make a third attempt this afternoon to get it as hot as possible. Thanks everyone.

[LeeJustice]

I don't see a pressure gauge.  How do you know it was up to 20psi?

[Latticino]

Adjust the air intakes until you have 1" - 6" of flame showing out of the opening of the forge door when it is burning in a dark room and up to a decent orange interior temperature.  This should be a slightly reducing internal atmosphere, which will help prevent scaling on your steel.  A proper neutral atmosphere (full stochiometric burn) will be a little hotter, but most feel the tradeoff for increased scaling is not worth it.

Shame the manufacturer doesn't provide adequate instructions to run their forge.  You certainly should not be smelling propane when it is burning.  Make sure you soap test all your gas piping joints for leaks (brush a solution of dish soap and water over any joints and look for bubbles).  You did use gas rated pipe dope or thread tape on the joints during assembly, right?

[Frosty]

Bummer you spent money on one of those. You have a couple things you need to do, first rigidize and coat the ceramic wool with a good flame face refractory or you'll be breathing sharp vitrified ceramic needles. This is a B A D thing. 

You're using the wrong end in the picture. The way the propane plumbed one burner is closer to the main line and will get thee bulk of the fuel. The other burner has the 1/4 turn shut off valve and is intended to be shut down when you don't need the whole forge hot.

Be aware the 1/4 turn shut off valve is NOT intended as  fuel flow control it is an ON/OFF valve. PERIOD.

Turn your forge around and open the end with the short fuel run and do NOT close the other end completely. Burners MUST have a way to exhaust burnt fuel / air. Closing one end backs the exhaust up and makes it force it's way past the other burner flame and it's exhaust. 

This back pressure is the prime reason your burners aren't operating properly.

Once you've done those little things light it up and take a couple pictures in the opening so we can evaluate the flames. It should run much better and we can talk you through fine tuning it.

Frosty The Lucky.