Reasonable price for this Trenton

[Michael_Tricam]

Hey everyone.  I’m new to blacksmithing and have been using a railroad track anvil so far (one section vertical in concrete, and a section I lay flat for a larger work area) this has been working but I would like to upgrade.

I have been looking online at new anvils in the 100-135 lbs range. It seems like $700-$1000 is about what a quality anvil of that size cost new today. 
 

I have considered buying a cheap cast anvil to learn with but I don’t like buying things twice and I’m not sure how much better it would be than my railroad track. 
 

I just found this Trenton anvil for sale near me. Based on some quick research I think it is a farrier’s clip horn style made between 1927 and the late ‘30s (based on the dashed lines in the logo and the N still looking like an N). I think it is the 125lb model based on the dimensions. 
 

I have not seen it in person yet. The asking price is $800. 
 

I am very green and welcome all advice. 
 

Thanks

[George N. M.]

The two key tests for an anvil are ring and rebound.  When you tap an anvil it should have a good clear ring all over the face.  If there is a dead spot that gives more of a thud it probably means the face has delaminated from the body in that area.  That said, some makes of anvils are louder or quieter than others.  So, a subdued ring is not a sign of a bad anvil.

Rebound is more reliable.  Drop a ball bearing onto the face from 10" and measure how high the ball bearing bounces.  The higher the bounce the better.  Anything over 90% is great, 75-89% is good, 60-70% is OK, anything less than 50% is pretty punk.

An anvil can look good but it is possible that it has been through a fire and the temper has be destroyed.  The ring and rebound will be bad in that case.

I'd consider $800 for a 125# anvil ($6.40/lb) to be pretty high end.  I'd consider a fair market value to be more in the $5-600 range.  However, if that is all you can find and you can afford it the decision is up to you.

I have heard that Vevor anvils, available on the internet, are not bad for their price, probably an improvement on a piece of RR track.

Browse around in the anvil threads here in IFI.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Brian Hibbert]

I've been happy (so far) with the Harbor Freight 65 lb cast steel Doyle anvil for $150 (if I had waited 3 weeks I could have had 25% off).  DON'T get the blue cast iron one.  It's small, but currently meets my needs and was a significant improvement over the sledge hammer head I was using. I'm a  literal "back yard blacksmith" and the lighter weight is a plus at the moment since I have to move everything out of the shed when I want to do something and all back in when I'm done.  If you'll need to move it regularly, you might want to consider one of the small alternatives.

That said, I'm not sure how much of an improvement the small anvils would be over a rail track anvil.  

[Frosty]

Trentons are generally top shelf anvils if the shape suits your needs. A fine point about the ring and rebound tests, they WILL change as you test around the face, over the "heart / sweet spot" over the center of the body and foot rebound will be higher and it WILL fall off as you test out the heel and horn, the tone will change too becoming louder and more bell like. What you're looking for is a sudden change.

Gradual change = good, sudden change = BAD. 

Don't fall for the myth that old anvils are better, in recent decades competent casters have been producing high quality anvils every bit as good as the old the best old makes. Some better.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Michael_Tricam]

If you had the option of buying this anvil for $600 (assuming bounce and ring test go well) or up to $1000 (including shipping) on a new anvil, what would you choose? 
 

Also, thanks for all the responses so far!

[George N. M.]

I'd buy the $600 anvil and spend $400 on other stuff.  It looks like a good usable anvil.  Why spend more than you have to?  I might pay $600 but I'd walk away from $800.

GNM

[Michael_Tricam]

Well I bought it for $700. I might have overpaid a little but I am stoked!

Now I need to make a stand. 

[Michael_Tricam]

Well… how did I do?

[George N. M.]

Since you are stoked I would say you did very well.  Any transaction where you walk away with a smile on your face is a good transaction.  Anvils tend to run higher in price in the Western US because there are fewer of them out there.  And, you didn't have to pay shipping.  I uspect that someone will still be using this anvil a century from now.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Daswulf]

Trentons are excellent anvils. How is the ring and more importantly rebound? 

I have a trenton as well about the same weight ,mine being later and welded at the waist with a solid steel upper, but it is my go to and a great anvil. 

What you paid is no biggie if you are happy. What you can use it for is priceless if you use it well and sell goods. Used right, it is a tool that will last many more generations. Congrats. 

[Brian Hibbert]

As long as you use it over the years, that tool will pay for itself and an extra hundred or so won't matter in the long run. As George and Daswulf said, it you're happy, it was an excellent buy. 

From the pictures, it looks to be in great condition, so you got a great tool that you can handle down to your grandchildren.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

As others have said, I think you did well seeing the condition in the pictures. Hope you have read about not doing any grinding, milling or welding on the hardened steel face, which does more harm than good. Hammering hot steel on the face will shine it right up. To protect it from rust a light coat of ATF or any oil will protect the face and Blo will protect the base. Congratulations on a great find.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[Will Brouwers]

She's a beaut! 

I also have a Trenton (Lakeside) I love it, even though the rebound is ~60%. I am in the camp that believes rebound doesn't matter on an anvil.

[Michael_Tricam]

Thanks everyone for the support! 
 

I have read much of the anvil info on this site, and will not be modifying or attempting to repair the anvil in any way. 
 

The rebound is in the mid 80% range! 
 

I am working on a stand design and started with materials I have on hand.  What are everyone’s thought on the stand in the attached pdf? 

Anvil Stand.pdf

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I say your stand will work just fine. Wood has been used for eons as stand material, just figure out the correct height for the anvil.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[Michael_Tricam]

I have it designed to the height of my RR track anvil. I have not done the plywood hammer mark test, but I figured that height has been working so far. 
 

[George N. M.]

According to Warren Buffet when you  buy anything, millions of dollars of stocks, anvils, left handed widget polishers, etc. You have to understand the difference between price, which is what you pay, versus value which is the benefit it brings you now and in the future.  

GNM

[Frosty]

Have you looked at the anvil stand section here? You wouldn't have to ask what we think of a end grain bolted lumber anvil stand. You could've perused any of a dozen other basic types and variants.

Every stand has pros and cons.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Michael_Tricam]

Just about done with the stand. I think it turned out well. It is very quiet with the sand. 

[Frosty]

It looks like you built a sand box stand, is it a good height for you?

If that's your working height, the box might get in the way of working off the edge of the anvil, I often use the sides to square up corners and such

If you mount hammer hangers on it and use leather loops, make them considerably larger than the handles, just small enough the hammer head won't slip through is all you need. If the loops are just large enough the leather will grab the handles when you withdraw or hang them.

Honest, we watched the fellow demonstrating fight with his hammers for a couple hours today at the club meeting.

His anvil stand is screwed and glued together end grain lumber with the anvil's foot inset about 1 1/2" all round, no staples, chain, etc. it stays put beautifully. Even if it and the stand want to walk a little on a concrete floor. 

You'll really like a sand box stand, they're very quiet and you can adjust the height as you work. Keep two 3lb. coffee cans in the area, not under foot! but within close by.

Some jobs you'll be working with top tools a LOT and the anvil's working height WILL be too high you can just lift the anvil set it cross ways on the stand, scoop out some sand into the empty coffee can and VIOLA!

On the flip side you may need to do some fine finish forging and not want to bend over for your back's sake. Again, lift the anvil to it's cross ways perch and add some sand from the full can. A N D VIOLA your anvil is 2,3, maybe 4" higher. What ever ya like like, Hmmmm?

With practice you'll know jow many scoops to add or subtract to adjust the height first time, every time. 

Frosty The Lucky.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Michael_Tricam]

I tried the wood impression test and it is currently at a good height with enough room in the box for +4 inches. The box might be a little bulky but I have never used an actual anvil so I will find out. Beside the sand, this was all scrap I had in my garage, so it should work for a first attempt. 
 

I just can’t wait to make something with a real anvil! 

[Michael_Tricam]

Frosty, 

I would also like to thank you for your earlier response about my previous design. I had not done enough research. I had done a ton of research on anvils, and after I finally got one I was ready to use it and build a stand. You encouraged me to research a better option. 

Thanks, 

Michael 

[Bud in PA]

If you are happy with your purchase you paid the right price for it.

[Frosty]

You're welcome Michael, it's my pleasure. 

Frosty The Lucky. 

[arkie]

Michael, anvils are a lot like land.....they generally appreciate in price.  That being said about "good" anvils.  Cast iron trash, not so much so.  The anvil which I now have for some 13 years probably would sell for at least twice what I paid for it.  Everyone's experience will vary.  If you're happy, don't look back.