Atticka Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Hello everyone, Beginner here, looking for some advice. I'd like to build my first forge (I'm on a budget) and I was looking at plans for a "coffee can" forge, but it seems like it might be a little small. I've seen other plans using a propane tank as the body (yes, cutting these open can be very dangerous, I was considering buying a new, never used tank) and lining it with Kaowool, etc... My main question is about using a propane or mapp gas brazing torch as the heat source, any thoughts on this? advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticka Posted September 9, 2008 Author Share Posted September 9, 2008 Here is an example of what I'm thinking ofCoffee-Can Forge But a little bit larger. I'm mostly concerned about safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Freon cans work real well. I am slowly getting my forge built with one. Never used MAPP for forging so I can't comment there. Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Falzone Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Ever consider using charcoal? Used properly, you can do any kind of forging with charcoal, and you can set up a charcoal forge really cheaply. There is a great website with directions on making a laundry tub forge which will give you a much bigger forge area than a coffee-can forge. Also, I think if you use a propane or freon tank for your gas forge shell, you're going to have to buy a much bigger burner than a simple blowtorch like the one used with the coffee can. You're going to have a much bigger volume to heat up and that wee torch won't cut it (IMO). With the bigger burner, you're also going to need a regulator for your propane tank. -directions for washtub forge (you could use an old hair dryer for your blower)Charcoal Forge -a good source for regulators, burners and other forge partsEllis Custom Knifeworks For an alternative to using a cut up tank for your forge shell, check out the thread topic "Ammo Can Forge" (you can use the IFI search button to find it). I've actually used this forge recently and it works really well (in case you can't find a good tank) It's good to hear from other Canadians. Good luck and have fun. Aeneas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 (edited) Try using SS stove pipe instead of an old pressure tank. You won't need much for tools, tin snips, drill, pop rivets, or sheet metal screws, etc. Remember, all you're doing is holding a fire and a couple lbs of stock. If you must however, cutting a propane tank isn't as dangerous as intuition says it is. Pull the valve and flush with water and a cup of chlorine bleach for each 20lbs in size. The bleach will remove the mercaptains, scent they put in propane so you have a chance of discovering a leak non-catastrophically. With the valve removed, mark and cut with whatever you have that'll cut steel, a torch or plasma cutter isn't going to blow you up. Even if all you do is pull the valve and take a torch to it all you'll get is a woof of blue flame and as long as you aren't in front of the opening you'll be fine. A BernzOmatic torch, propane or Mapp, will only heat a pretty small volume, large bean can with 1" of Kaowool is about right. A coffee can is pushing it but doable. Welcome aboard. Frosty Edited September 10, 2008 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Also have a look at the online catalogues of various manufacturers. I know you are on a budget but it is an excellent way of picking up ideas. Start at Vaughans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticka Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share Posted September 10, 2008 The charcoal forge looks great! easy to make and cost effective ;-) Would you use the standard charcoal briquettes for BBQ'ing? I guess its all the same stuff. Frosty, I was thinking of that as well, stove pipe would make an excellent 'container' for the ceramic wool. I think the whole coffee can/gas forge idea go trumped by the charcoal forge setup though. This just came to mind.... the charcoal forge would be a summer only ordeal, where as the smaller propane forge could be used indoors (large open garage) during the winter months. Awesome stuff guys, thanks a lot for the idea's. Just need to find me a beginners anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Falzone Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I would recommend NOT using briquettes ... EVER - they are horrible for forging. You need to use lump charcoal - Royal Oak is a good brand - and you want to break it up into squarish nuggets as wide as your thumb (around 1" cubes) for the best heat. If you have a large open garage, you could still burn charcoal in the winter instead of propane. I think charcoal burns much cleaner than propane in enclosed areas ... can anyone else varify? Aeneas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollhammer Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I would think that no matter what your fuel is, you don't want to forge in an enclosed space. If I'm off on that, please let me know. You could build a stationary hood that is vented to the outside. Build your forges on wheels and you can roll the one you're using under the hood, whether it's propane or coal/charcoal. Mickey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticka Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share Posted September 10, 2008 Got it...use natural charcoal. What do you use Aeneas? Thanks for the link Phil, I was in your neck of the woods in June of 2007, beautiful country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Welcome, Atticka. Tim Lively's washtub forge design is designed for bladesmithing. I'm sure it's very good at that, but you might want to modify the design a little, that is if you are more interested in general smithing. Of course, noone ever said you could only have one forge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I've used a one firebrick forge in a drafty stone walled basement in midwinter OH. Figured it wouldn't put out any more toxic gas than using the propane torch for doing other work---we kept it drafty as the two furnaces were down there and we prefered that the make up air for them came from outside and *easily*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishdaddy Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 i think ill try making me one like that but with an electric blower..what size electric blower do you recomend?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticka Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 (edited) I was thinking the same thing Fish, I was looking at squirrel cage blowers on Grainger Industrial Supply I was considering these two items: Blower,60 CFM,3030 DAYTON 4C441 Fan Speed Control,3 A DAYTON 1DGV1 But I am unsure about how much CFM would be best for such a forge. I can imagine going for higher CFM and dialing it down with the speed control would be a good way to go (better to have more than not enough! I ). Lots of options on that site... I'm still poking around to see if there are better options or deals.http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/categories/hvacr/blowers/small-centrifugal-blowers Edited September 11, 2008 by Atticka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Falzone Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Got it...use natural charcoal. What do you use Aeneas? I use Royal Oak charcoal because that's the easiest for me to find. So long and the charcoal is natural lump charcoal and so long as it's good quality, it'll work just fine. Aeneas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Hey, I'll be making some charcoal this weekend, and post pictures and explaining the process that I go through, you might wanna look at it, it's going to cost me $0 to run my forge from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houaha Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 hmm i found a video on making charcoal here is the link: part 1: YouTube - Making Charcoal For the Forge part 2: YouTube - Making Charcoal For the Forge Part 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverDamForge Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 I was thinking the same thing Fish, I was looking at squirrel cage blowers on Grainger Industrial Supply I was considering these two items: Blower,60 CFM,3030 DAYTON 4C441 Fan Speed Control,3 A DAYTON 1DGV1 But I am unsure about how much CFM would be best for such a forge. I can imagine going for higher CFM and dialing it down with the speed control would be a good way to go (better to have more than not enough! I ). Lots of options on that site... I'm still poking around to see if there are better options or deals.HVACR > Blowers > Small Centrifugal Blowers : Grainger Industrial Supply I have a blower similar to that, I'm not sure of the specs (it was on a wood stove) but the motor is about 2 1/2" in diameter and 3" long. I built a box around it and control the inlet air. With my brake drum forge I had to nearly close off the inlet. I'm not sure what a shaded pole motor is and how well it will respond to a dimmer control (Anybody know?). The "fan curve" is another thing to consider, if you use only a small fraction of the blower's capacity controlling it gets tricky. I've seen setups where you turn the knob to get a bit more blast and nothing much happens, turn it a little more and you've got full blast! A gate control is easy enough to set up and will give good control for sure. I prefer to regulate the inlet, it unloads the fan and reduces current draw. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 first I took water heater tank (120 lit) cut a door on him and make the door handles then screw a pipe on his "up" side and a old wacume cleaner who can blow on the other side... insaide i made a circle with drilled holes so ashes dont fall in the pipe ... see for yourself ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticka Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 Nice forge Kovacija! Beaver, I was thinking of setting up a dimmer (fan speed control, not a light dimmer, big difference between the two) and an air baffle for twice the control. I'm thinking it might be healthier for the motor to have the baffle on the outlet instead of the inlet (better cooling for the motor). One thing to remember about fan speed control dimmers is that they control %50 to %100 of the motors output and you shouldn't use a light dimmer. A ceiling fan speed control switch would be perfect and is designed to control motors (I don't know the technical details, has to do with the different capacitance of a light vs. an electric motor). I'm going to try and get all the parts together this weekend to build the forge, I'll take pictures for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 only in my forge I missed a important thing! I must open a 5 cm space under the doors because heathing part is not straight (horizontal) so it takes a lot of charchoal (go to waste) next month I am going to start a new project _ gas forge I think it is better and less smoking :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverDamForge Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 (edited) Nice forge Kovacija! Beaver, I was thinking of setting up a dimmer (fan speed control, not a light dimmer, big difference between the two) and an air baffle for twice the control. I'm thinking it might be healthier for the motor to have the baffle on the outlet instead of the inlet (better cooling for the motor). One thing to remember about fan speed control dimmers is that they control %50 to %100 of the motors output and you shouldn't use a light dimmer. A ceiling fan speed control switch would be perfect and is designed to control motors (I don't know the technical details, has to do with the different capacitance of a light vs. an electric motor). I'm going to try and get all the parts together this weekend to build the forge, I'll take pictures for everyone.The fan controls may be PWM (pulse width modulation) controllers, that would be a good thing. If you restrict the inlet instead, you take the load off the motor and don't make as much heat. When the RPM goes up the current drops, and the windings passing current will make a lot more heat than the bearings. Restricting the outlet forces the blower to make pressure, with all the air it can work with. That's the most load you can put on the motor. I looked around a bit and found that trying to run an AC motor at less than 1/3 rated speed is thermally bad too. Of course none of that means it won't work for years or that it will kill your electric bill. Good Luck! (Edit: I've been running a shaded pole motor/squirrel cage fan in a box for a few months now, several hours at a time a few days a week. The inlet is usually restricted to 1/16", tapering to nothing 1" in either direction. I haven't checked the temp after shutdown but if it were a problem I'd probably know by now... In retrospect, I probably should have made the inlet on the motor side rather than the fan side.) Edited September 12, 2008 by BeaverDamForge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisfaeth Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I'm looking to build a gas forge out of 10'' ID oil well pipe. what should my length be & what size of burner should I make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 What do you want to forge/do in it ? More info needed for a quantified answer please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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