el cheapo anvils yep thats me

[artandsoul]

 Ive been looking for an anvil for about 6 months now and have bid on a few anvils recently at auction since none locally are ever less than 500.00. There was a fisher anvil around 70lbs that had one side really badly knocked off aka destroyed it went for 200.00. Then there was a 450lb anvil 34" long massive xxxxxxx that went for 1200.00 lol way out of my price range.

Since im a newbie to forging I feel I was luck to already have a piece of railroad track about 16" long but still want a real anvil shape in the end. I put the track on a stand and hit it with the ball end of a cheapo harbor freight ballpeen hammer and it dented easily with a weak hit. I remember when i got it it was brand new never run over by a train and figure well its kinda soft in my mind and bought a vevor 88lb cheapo anvil on ebay for 115.00 last week hoping it will be harder than the track. maybe i did ok with the cheapo vevor maybe i didnt lol can always sell it for more locally but dont see me buying a 200.00 half gone fisher or a 1200.00 monster i cant move without a engine hoist either.

I figure between the 2 ill be able to forge something in the next few months and not cost me a small fortune in anvils the end. I see many using railroad track and mine seems soft imo but maybe thats my inexperience in anvils being softer than expected compared to a cheap ballpeen hammer lol. Does anyone think the new rr track from the 90s is soft or im just thinking it is?! I know your not suppose to hit the anvil but xxx this thing seems really soft if it hit it with any hammer it dents easily.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Mod30
Language

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Check out the TPAAAT section and Improvised anvils. Have you read the Read This First thread yet?

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sails.

 

[artandsoul]

Thanks I have read it, many things can be used as an anvil dont mean there actually a great anvil ive seen a few nice large pieces of steel i cant get locally period. Then theres people using a sledge hammer head not a good anvil imo but thats me im to picky lol. But I did see there the rr track using it tall ways on edge I have a smaller piece I will mount that way for a small surface later and can see it working good. says nothing about new or older track thats been used, i have read that a new track is softer than old used track that has been runover for years making it much harder. i ground down the sides of this track very easily like butter seems soft but hey its better than a sledge hammer head. I guess i went overboard with the cheapo vevor wanting more weight and surface area. 

I go to 4 auctions a week and have asked everyone ever for 6 months yes even all the older hoarder guys who have 4 anvils they wont sell one ever till there dead lol just like any other piece of rusty metal they have period .Then 90% of people think yeah i have an anvil on the back of there 35lb vise or maybe a 1980s 40lb anvil thats from china painted silver its total trash they will sell me for 75.00.

[George N. M.]

The face of used rail can be work hardened by the passage of many trains over it but work hardening is like case hardening, it doesn't go very deep into the metal.  If it were me, I would square up and grind flat one end of a piece of rail, mount it vertically, and forge on the end.  The biggest problem with using the top of a rail is that it is not flat.

I have heard that Vevors are not bad, a definite improvement over the cast iron HF anvil shaped objects.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[gewoon ik]

i have used a small piece of cranerail standing up.

Make sure the support is good. I had a good one but the wood was dry-rotted so now it is all wobly and has lost all its weight. So it is jumping up and down. (i still need to make a new one but i choose to use my time forging and swearing to the wobble and not to making a new one)

But it is a good anvil and still use it (i made a good fuller of the webbing and I grinded a nice small horn in it).

The best way of finding anvils is to start using something as an anvil and be happy with it. Then you will start tripping over anvils

[lary]

As George mentioned, standing the rail vertical is an improvement. Mounting it to a steel tripod will keep it from wobbling. Other than the hardy and pritchel hole being to big, I personally haven't had any major issues with the Acciaio anvil. Just practice on something else, missed blows with a 4 lbs. hammer will leave a dent. 

[Daswulf]

Any steel used as an anvil will be harder than the hot metal you are forging on it. 

The best thing to do is get started forging and learning the skills. It's easy to get caught up with little things before you start. Once you learn and practice the skills things start getting easier and you worry less about misstrikes and denting whatever anvil you use. Practice on the cheaper anvils and if you get good and start selling what you make and you can save that money for more material and maybe even a nice new anvil. 

Rail and sledgehammer heads are often mentioned because they are everywhere and Work if you don't have much money or other options. Even as a cheap alternative to test the waters and see if it is for you before spending a bunch of money. 

I think George got it with work hardening on the rail. Even a big name anvil could get dented with a misstrike. Main thing is to hit the hot metal and not the anvil. 

 

[Rojo Pedro]

Mount that 88 pounder solid to a heavy stump and you have all you need to do some serious forging. Plus a hardy hole. 

[artandsoul]

Thanks for the replys and info! Looks like ill be mounting the track vertical and use it to start and save the vevor for larger things later on! 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard, glad to have you. Be aware that being a newcomer puts you in the position of not knowing enough to sort myth from good info and anvil myths are probably the most common.  A horn isn't nearly as useful as most folk think, I use mine mostly as a bottom fuller, only occasionally to true up a ring. I turn scrolls, rings, etc. on the face it's much easier than it might look. 

Cool you're on while I type and I get to delete a couple paragraphs you don't need to read!

Use the rail on end, it'll be the more effective anvil for moving hot steel, you can straighten work vertically just hold it hanging down against the flange. It's easier than it sounds and use a wooden mallet for straightening so it doesn't damage the surface details like a hammer will. For moving hot steel you only need a little larger anvil face than the size of the hammer's face. Wait till you've used it for a while before grinding the web and flange into different tools, that way you'll have a better idea of what you'll actually need. 

Mount your Vevor and use the horn, hardy and pritchel holes. The don't need to be attached to your main anvil.

All you need now is a HOT fire and a smooth faced hammer and you're good to go. Tongs are really handy I recommend making a pair or two of "Twist tongs" to get you started. Those search terms will find how to make them videos, directions, etc. Adding "Iforgeiron" to the search terms will make the hits on this forum the top pages. The Iforge search engine isn't very good I don't think ay of the experienced folk use it anymore.

Just remember being a blacksmith is NOT about the "right" tools, it's about training your brain, and thumbs. All the tools in the world are just highly refined dirt without human hands and brain to direct them.

Frosty The Lucky.

[artandsoul]

Yes i dont know much about smithing for sure and def alot to learn like any skill. I see how anvils of different sizes and shapes can be handy for different things esp smaller stuff. Im gonna try and figure out how to mount the track vertical today. ill search on that awhile as I know NOT to ask simple questions as ill just get bashed by members saying use the search over and over lol. 

[gewoon ik]

Sometimes asking is good, and sometimes research is good.

And in some topics, you can find hidden gold in info.

Don't forget to heat steel and hit it. And having fun while doing that.

[George N. M.]

If I were mounting a piece of rail upright I would use a stump or section of log or a piece made of bolted or lag screwed togeter 4x4s or 2x6s and outline the shape of the end of the rail on top.  Then, I would drill out as much wood as I could with wood bits to about 2-3" deep and refine the receptical shape with a wood chisel.  Then, I would put a 1/4" or so layer of silicon caulk in the bottom of the hole and set the rail in.  I would want it resting on wood and the caulk just fills in the irregularities in the bottom of the hole.

[Daswulf]

You won't get bashed, just that many beginner questions have been asked and answered over and over so in searching you should be able to find answers. Some answers are from very knowledgable members that are no longer with us or not as active as they once were. Some of that knowledge is gold and well worth searching and reading. 

If you have trouble finding the answers you need please do ask. We can answer, or point you in the right direction. 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Also the best way to search is to use your favorite search engine (like Google or Duck Duck Go) and add site:iforgeiron to the end of the string. The search function on the forum leaves a lot to be desired.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sails.

[Daswulf]

Good point Irondragon. 

[Frosty]

NoBody bashed you, I just re-read the thread looking for someone to yell at but nope, people told you which section to search to find the answers. The question you asked has been answered probably thousands of times and every one is available to read. Just like I did above.

Research and learning in general are acquired skills so that person who tells you to look it up isn't being mean they're doing you a favor. The answer to your specific question is only a tiny fraction of the benefits you receive, every time you have to search to find something in a HUGE data base like Iforge the better you get at it.

If you think looking something up when you've been pointed in the right direction is being bashed just wait till you try making STEEL do what you want it to. Blacksmithing is about thinking, planning, sweating, sore muscles, (hopefully) minor injuries, cuts, bruises and burns. There is no other way to become a blacksmith than blood sweat and tears work. If you're lucky you'll find a mentor to show and tell you what your mistakes are and how to do it right. Without a mentor the only way to get the knowledge that makes the blood sweat and tears gift you with a craft is reading and research.

Nobody's being mean, that's just how life is in general. 

Do  little reading so you can ask better questions and understand the answers, we'll be here.

Frosty The Lucky.