White Fox Forge Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 About a week ago I was out making a knife for a family member and the sharpie I was using as layout fluid kept smudging so i couldnt see my scribe lines. It was quite frustrating so I decided to make my own layout fluid. I did some research and watched a couple YouTube videos. From what information I could gather it seems that most layout fluids are made from alcohol and a sort of lacquer. This is the recipe i found to work the best: 4 oz of denatured alcohol. 2 oz of Bullseye shellac. 1/4 oz of Feibing's Royal Blue Pro leather dye. Of course you could use other colors or even different dies but this is what i had on hand. I am not sure how it withstands heat however I do know that it is extremely water resistant. I apply a thin coat of it with a paintbrush and let it dry for 10 minutes. It is imperative that you wash the paintbrush out afterwards to avoid ruining the bristles. Let me know if this helps! Cheers! White Fox Forge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 I would have to ask how much did all of the ingredients cost? as well as how long did it take to make? The reason is that a 4oz bottle of red Dykem is $11 form that place named after the giant river in S. America. An 8oz is around $18 or so. Oddly the blue costs a bit more, like $14 for the 4oz IIRC. However a quart is about $30. The bottles also come with a built in brush so no need to clean it after use. You can also get it in an aerosol or marker type thingy but those are kind of pricey. Anyway just wondering to what the cost effectiveness would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 Sounds like too much trouble and money to replace a proven economical product, a quart of Dykem tends to last years unless you're doing serious bulk manufacturing. If you're making LOTS of blades I highly suggest designing good cut patterns. When I want fast cheap I use either white or flat black Krylon spray paint. It comes right off with inexpensive stripper, ATF or 350f. Don't make the mistake of grabbing the "header" paint, it doesn't much care about strippers nor heat. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Fox Forge Posted April 19, 2023 Author Share Posted April 19, 2023 I used Sunnyside denatured alcohol which runs about $13 a quart. The shellac is about $20 a quart for the name brand but I'm sure you could find some generic for half the price. The dye I bought from Tandy and I had it on hand anyway. This is enough to make at least twice the amount of layout fluid for the price of dykem plus you can color it or water it down to the consistency you want. That being said I think most metalworking, or knife makers have these ingredients on hand or could purchase some easily. It took me 5 minutes to prepare and I am probably mostly going to use it for lathe work and laying out patterns on knives. I use scrap knife blanks that I have made for templates to scribe the design on. I've tried spray paint before and I didn't have the best luck. This could have been due to the fact it was walmart generic spray paint. Thank you for the recommendation anyway. For me this recipe works wonderfully and I just thought I'd share. White Fox Forge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 Some people like to think outside the box. DIY is fun if your not under a strict budget, penny and time wise. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jeff Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 Alcohol and instant coffee? If you want brown lay out maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 Thanks for the follow up. Good info. Please do not take what i said as knocking your efforts, like i said just asking about cost effectiveness. As with many aspects of this trade what works for me may not work for you. I will never tell you you are wrong if you are getting the results you desire. There are many paths to your goal and all that matters is that you reach that goal, not how you got there. One other thing i may add. I have seen a few youtube videos about making layout dye. Most are from other countries where it is not as readily available like here i the states. With members form many countries on this forum there are provably many of them who will find your info very much useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Fox Forge Posted April 19, 2023 Author Share Posted April 19, 2023 Thank you for the encouragement. I am not sure about alcohol and instant coffee. Maybe as a form of beverage for some. Jokes aside I am not certain on the affects on steel. The shellac acts as a resin to hold the dye on the steel. I would give it a try tho. Who knows, maybe it'll work better than this recipe. I may try that myself after these batches run out. Thanks again. White fox forge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jeff Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 I don't know how well it would really work just thought it was a quick cheap idea. Steel aside coffee can be used as a stain though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 Coffee is slow to stain steel, think etch times. Dad used dykem all the time and bought it by the gallon every 2-3 years. He was a professional metal spinner and machinist with from 6-10 employees at any given time. We were always laying something out. Even them we didn't use a lot as quantity goes. I forgot IFI is a world wide forum there for a minute, home made layout dyes are an excellent thing to spread to the world. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 Sorta like making your own penetrating oil like Kroil by mixing 50/50 amounts of Dexron II ATF & Acetone. sure is cost effective and easy to get. We have always bought Dykem blue but when we run out will try your recipe but use disposable foam brushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Fox Forge Posted April 19, 2023 Author Share Posted April 19, 2023 Huh. I'll have to try that recipe too. Thanks. Hope this helped. Let me know how it works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 18 hours ago, The Jeff said: Alcohol and instant coffee? Never thought of using Irish coffee that way Ummm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jeff Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 Well I actually meant rubbing/ isopropyl alcohol. Sorry I wasn't very specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Fox Forge Posted April 24, 2023 Author Share Posted April 24, 2023 Just thought I should add. I made a kitchen knife and used the layout fluid to trace the pattern. It was a little pale and transparent for my taste but still did the job. This could have been how I applied it or the amount of dye I added. I think I will add more dye next time. It withstood me grinding with a used belt and not dipping in water to cool it so I am also impressed in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 If it works and you're not going too deeply out-of-pocket for things you have already on hand, go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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