Bolt-together anvil stand

[BK02]

I made something I’ve never really seen on here. It’s a steel anvil tripod with no welding. Only tools I used was a Dewalt drill, and my forge and anvil for the rivets. Very simple to make, and very cost effective, I think I spent less than $150 for all the materials including the 3/8-16 tap and corresponding drill bit. 
 

Materials Used:

1-1/4” OD .120 wall mild tubing(would recommend 1-1/2” OD .250” wall for anvils much heavier than 100lbs)- Legs

1” OD 1144 rod- Threaded rod insert for legs

1/4” 4140 rod- Rivets for legs

3/8-16x1-1/4” Grade 8 flange socket head screw- leg retention method

1.625” OD 3/8” washers- leg retention method

Black oxide 3/8x16 U bolt 1” ID- Chain tensioning 

3/8” chain-  anvil retention 

1/2” mild plate(would recommend 5/8” or 3/4” for anvils much heavier than 100lbs)- anvil mounting base 

How I constructed it:

The legs

 I cut the 1144 rods into 4” lengths since I ordered a 1’ length. Then, I drilled and threaded the rod for 3/8-16 bolts. Once that was done, I drilled the holes in the leg and 1144 rod for the 1/4” rivets. To do this, I had about .450” of the rod protruding from the leg tubing so it would countersink into the base for a better fit, while still allowing the bolt to be only pulling the leg material into the base.(different thickness plates will require different lengths protruding) To keep everything tight so nothing moves will I am drilling, I just clamped it in the vise tight enough so the rod would not shift. After I drilled one hole, I put some 1/4” rod in the hole to make sure everything would stay lined up. Next I put 2” length of 1/4” 4140 into the forge(3/8” protruding on either side for the 1.5D rule for rivet heads). I started the rivet on the first heat, got the other two started, and then put the whole assembly in the forge and got it hot enough to finish all 3 rivets in one heat. After all of those were assembled, I bent the legs. Nothing too this part. Just got the section below where the 4” rod ended a little above a dull red heat, clamped the end in the vise, and bent them all to the same angle, about 15 degree. Immediately after the bed was completed, I took it to the anvil and hammered down where the bend was to make sure there was no folding or creases happening on the tubing. 
 

The base

The base on mine is 1/2”x9”x14” mild steel. Every anvil will require slightly different dimensions, so this part is most depending on the anvil you’re wanting to mount. If you are using 3/8” chain, the U bolts should be about 7/16” away from the side of the anvil, to allow room for the 3/8” chain to fit in between there. You’ll have to cut two pieces of chain, length depending on how large the base of the anvil is. Mine required 9 links per piece to reach around to the U bolts equally. Start with more than you need, and you can cut links off as you go to get the right length. 
 

Assembly is very straight forward. You bolt the legs to the base. I find it to balance best with the single leg pointing straight out from the horn or heel, and the two legs that are together pointing almost straight out from the side, this will prevent it from easily being pushed over. (If you are making the legs longer than mine(24”), I would make the bends closer to 20 degrees to add stability) When you’re securing the anvil to the base with the chain and U bolts, make sure to tighten the U bolts evenly, so the chain is tight. Once you think it’s tight, tap on the chain to make sure all the slack is out of it, and it’s all the way against the anvil, and then tighten them a bit more. 
 

I will be dressing the edges and corners of the steel plate to make it less sharp and more appealing to the eye, and would recommend others do the same. I will also probably add a couple loops for tongs and hammers. 
 

Hopefully this helps anyone who doesn’t have a welder, or wants an easily disassembled for travel stand. I am very impressed with the rigidity of the .120 wall tubes, but I think .250” wall would work a little better since it would be more stiff and add more weight to the bottom end of it. I will be adding sand to my legs to further dampen sound and add some weight. 
 

Bryce

 

[Frazer]

Nice Soderfors. I would have trouble working on a stand like that personally. With 1/2" plate and relatively thin legs I'm not sure it would be rigid enough, even with a lighter anvil (47kg isn't very light).  Everything is a spring and the more the stand deflects the less force is transmitted into your work. You might not feel it deflecting with each blow, but is and probably more than you think.

At the very least I would try to add some cross bracing to legs somehow to stiffen them up a little.

My stand is all bolted together together too, but I used 4x4x3/8" sq. tube (stood on end) for the 4 legs, prestressed 3/4" plate for the top and 1" plate under the feet.

I'm not being critical, just my 2c.

[JHCC]

That's an interesting idea, but like Frazer, I'd recommend cross bracing under the legs. There's a lot riding on the strength of those bolted joints, and one hefty bump could put a lot of torque on them. To quote Cosmo Castorini, it's fine until something goes wrong, and something always goes wrong. 

If you were to get some 1/4" x 1" bar and make an "X" for each side, you could still bolt everything together without having to do any welding. Just make sure you've got some nice solid lock washers on them, as you don't want them working loose over time.

[BK02]

I was worried about the stiffness as well, and am looking to put bracing on the legs, but I spent an hour forging on it earlier, and I can tell it’s working a better than the stump was. Ring is completely gone, and seems to have slightly more rebound, and I can tell the force is going directly into the concrete below, more so than with the hard maple stump. I will probably upgrade to the 1/4” wall legs eventually as it does have some flex torsionally, but that isn’t a massive concern right now. The goal was just to have a somewhat easily taken down and portable stand so I can travel and move it around easily. 

[Frazer]

I've found I prefer the steel stand too now that I switched over from wood.

As far as the legs go, bigger is better IMHO. Stronger, heavier, more peace of mind.

I like that you went the bolt together route. I'm already glad I did. I've only had it for a month or so and I've already taken it apart to make some additions. With sand in the legs the stand weighs ~220#, add my 150# Soderfors on there and you have a tough thing to move if needed... unless it all comes apart.

[Frosty]

I wouldn't trust an anvil stand like that, it's just too fragile. It MIGHT be okay if all the forces on the anvil were straight down but MIGHT be okay isn't good enough. Especially when doing it right is so easy. Being bolt together isn't an issue at all, bolts hold up every darned thing.

That one just scares me.

Frosty The Lucky.

[BK02]

Going to try making my first hammer here soon. We’ll see how she holds up. Not exactly sure what makes it seem weak, but we’ll see what happens. I will eventually put 1/4” wall tubing for the legs, mainly to help the stand be more bottom heavy. I do not see a point to thicken the 1/2” plate any, because with how it’s constructed, theres no reason for anything to bend. The failure would almost have to be caused by shearing since the legs are so close to the base of the anvil. I will probably widen the stance of the legs out to closer to 20 degrees. I won’t ever tip it over during use as is, but I think one of my dumb dogs running into it hard enough could cause an issue lol 

[JHCC]

BK02, I beg you not to do any heavy forging on that anvil before you add cross braces. Any sideways force on the anvil will be concentrated on the weakest point of the stand: the bolted joints. If those joints go, the entire anvil and stand are going to come crashing down. 

This is the basic structure of your stand. You can see that the rigidity of the stand depends on the strength of the joints at “A”. 

If force “B” is applied horizontally and those joints fail, the whole thing is going sideways. 

On the other hand, if you bolt crisscross braces to each side (themselves bolted at “X”), you distribute any sideways force throughout the resulting truss. The triangles thus formed will be incredibly rigid, and the whole thing will be much more solid and — most importantly — much more safe. 

I know that you are proud of this design, and you have clearly put a lot of very good work into it. All you have to do is put in a little more, and it will be a LOT better. The alternative is to willfully choose to place yourself and others at risk of significant injury. An hour or two with some bolts and bars is a lot cheaper than an emergency room visit. 

 

 

 

[George N. M.]

The other problem, which no one else has mentioned, is that the anvil and stand have a high center of gravity and a fairly narrow footprint.  Even if the legs don't fail, with or without additional bracing, I think that it would be possible to knock the whole thing over with a missed lateral blow.  I would splay the feet out further to give it a larger footprint, particularly to the sides.  Try leaning your posterior against it as if you are going to take a rest.  If it starts to lean away from you and lift the nearest foot off the ground you have too small of a base footprint.

Your call, of course, but we want to see everyone stay safe and a toppling anvil is not a good thing.  There may be someone else in the shop who doesn't jump out of the way quickly enough.  You have to decide on the balance between work an effort and safety.  It is a risk/benefit equation but most of us would come down on the side that a little safety is worth a good amount of work.  Many of us have had injuries or known folk with them and it doesn't advance anyone's life or the craft to have to deal with avoidable injuries.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Frosty]

37 minutes ago, BK02 said:

Not exactly sure what makes it seem weak,

We know you don't. You don't build with steel. 

It doesn't SEEM weak, it's a list of basic engineering mistakes it doesn't take an engineer to recognize and not make. 

As John points out so tactfully your stand is made of squares. No strong structure is made of square corners. 90* corners are hinges, hinges fold. 

Strong structures are built with triangles, John's cross reinforcements turn your squares into triangles. Triangles don't hinge, they have to be crushed, twisted out of plain, torn or severed to fail. 

You didn't even put stiffeners on the legs and worse you bent them in S curves. Stiffeners are Hip members that turn the legs into paired triangles at 90* to each other with the base plate as the 3rd side making 3 triangles and VERY strong and rigid. 

The S curved legs turn them into springs, they don't conduct forces straight to the ground, they WILL flex with the compression waves. Not a good thing even if you can't feel it now.

The way you connected the legs to the plate is so disadvantageous as to be hard to imagine. The legs are 24" long and the depth of the connection is 1/2" through the plate. That is a 48:1 leverage advantage, every pound of side force will produce 48lbs of force on the joint and the only thing you have preventing the rod from pulling out of the plate are 3/8" bolts. Even grade 8 has it's limits. BUT the bolts aren't the weak point here it's the hole they're screwed into. 

Remember the forces on the bolt holes aren't tensile like bolts are designed to withstand, they're bending moment at a 48:1 leverage advantage AGAINST them. 

Even then the bolts are stronger than the washers and it isn't a straight pull, ALL the force will concentrate on one side of the bolt head against the washer and once again there's leverage advantage multiplying the leverage advantage of leg vs. plate thickness but probably only 2- 3 to one. But wait, they aren't hex head they're socket heads to all the hold they have is what, the thickness of the washer?

Just for a little mental exercise and a glimpse of what scares me so much, apply side force on your anvil, a bending fork. You WOULD like to do some bending or scroll work wouldn't you? I skid my 125lb. Solderfors in circles sometimes if the stock gets too cool. Assume a modest bend say you pull 50lbs. 50lbs. x 48 = 2,400lbs of bending moment on the pins through the plate. That force levers against the retainer bolt which is smaller than 3/8" against let's say a thick washer 0.25".

I'm not going to do the math my head already hurts but I'll give it a conservative leverage advantage of 5:1 for 12,000lbs of force prying it's way out of a 3/8" hole in 1/4" mild steel.

Do you have the willies yet?

I'm not dissing on you, I don't have so many friends I can afford to drive any off but I'd rather make you mad at me than have you injure or worse cripple yourself or an innocent visitor if I can do ANYTHING to prevent it.

Seriously, that stand scares the crap out of me.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[George N. M.]

One final thing to consider:  A lot of us have been around this bad old world a long time and have seen a lot of things good and bad.  We have made mistakes and have seen other folk make mistakes, sometimes very serious and or fatal.  So, if as many folk were raising serious issues about something that I was doing as are about your project I would think VERY long and hard before I dismissed their concerns.

Our concerns are the result of honest and informed issues about your's and other's safety.  We love the craft and the folk who do it enough that we don't want to see any accidents or setbacks.  There are few enough of us that we can't afford to lose any, particularly to incidents that we think our advice might help avoid.

Stay safe.

George

[JHCC]

Well said. 

[ThomasPowers]

I've already been to too many blacksmith estate sales; I don't have room in the shop for more!