Hey everyone, I don't get here often so bear with me if the question is dumb.  I'm building my first forge as the firebrick I use now isn't large enough.  I'm using an old air compressor tank and have that figured out.  My question is with the burner.  When installing the burner into the forge I plan to make it adjustable so if I change thickness of wool I can adjust accordingly.  My question is how far past the wool should I have the flare (end of burner)?  Also I plan to use 2 layers of 1" wool.  Is there any benefit to coating the first layer before putting on the 2nd.   Here's a pic of the latest knife I've made.  It's going to a guy in NJ and he'll use it on his Tuna fishing boat.  Thanks in advance.  

9 hours ago, Tooln said:

My question is how far past the wool should I have the flare (end of burner)?  Also I plan to use 2 layers of 1" wool.  Is there any benefit to coating the first layer before putting on the 2nd. 

Most people end up keeping the end of the burner about about 1" short of being even with the inner surface of the forge.

If you are talking about rigidizer, and calling it a coating then the answer is yes. If you are thinking about any kind of finish coating or refractory, the answer is NO!

Thanks, I am thinking of a rigidizer.  

Edited January 26, 20224 yr by Mod30
Remove excessive quote.

I barely extend burners through the shell and use the forge liner as a flare. That means I have to cut a larger burner port through the ceramic blanket, rigidize and coat with hard refractory and lastly kiln wash it. It serves two good purposes though, First it gets the burner out of the crazy high temperature zone in the forge and secondly it gives you a nice smooth long taper nozzle which enhances induction making the burner more effective.

Rigidize both layers of wool, only apply refractory and kiln wash to the flame face. 

Frosty The Lucky.

And of course that works by rigidizing the first layer, and then using the burner to "fire" it; this takes mere minutes, because the flame can impinge on the whole mass, not being stopped at the blanket's surface. It only take minutes to cool down afterward, so that the second layer can be laid.  Then, rigidize that second layer and repeat the firing. You should end up with both layers rigidized, and glued together. Remember that rigidizer is colored just so that you can be sure to do a thorough job. Also remember that there is no such thing as "overdoing it."

What do you plan to use for a flame face coating?

4 hours ago, Frosty said:

I barely extend burners through the shell and use the forge liner as a flare. That means I have to cut a larger burner port through the ceramic blanket, rigidize and coat with hard refractory and lastly kiln wash it. It serves two good purposes though, First it gets the burner out of the crazy high temperature zone in the forge and secondly it gives you a nice smooth long taper nozzle which enhances induction making the burner more effective.

Rigidize both layers of wool, only apply refractory and kiln wash to the flame face. 

Frosty The Lucky.

I think I understand what your saying.  Would you have a pic to make it perfectly clear.  The burner I'm making is from your design and your name keeps popping up on the web so it is clear you have forgotten more about this subject than this old fart will ever know.  Thanks

See there, Frosty? You're now a special old fart. I'm just  knit-picking old fart. Still, any name in a storm

I am Mike? I'm SPECIAL! Do I get an event in the Olympics?

Sorry Tooln I don't have a pic to show the depth of penetration I prefer and it varies depending on the forge. Nothing I make is exactly the same as the one just like it I made before. I adjust the depth of penetration so it performs the way I want.

I aim to have the outlet end of the burner penetrate maybe 1/4" into the outer layer of ceramic blanket.  This way any gaps in the blanket or burner port in the shell will induce air to flow into the forge rather than blow flame back out of the port. The passage of ambient air also helps keep the burner outlet cooler and believe me they burn up fast enough under ideal conditions.

Mike uses this action to contribute secondary combustion air to the flame for a more complete burn. 

Hope that helps. 

Frosty The Special . . .  <sigh>.

That's a good point about it helping to cool the flame retention nozzle; I'll have to steal that one

Hi Tooln,

Here is a picture of someone elses design that I edited, to show them where they could recess the burner outlet within the insulation layer, and where they would form a cone shape within the ceramic blanket, which they would then line with the castable refractory to make a flared opening, to allow the fuel/air mixture to decelerate and burn, without melting the end off the burner. 

This is what Frosty is describing above (ignore the rest of the picture, as it was someone's specific design that they wanted advice about).  

Hope this helps.

Tink!

14 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

See there, Frosty? You're now a special old fart. I'm just  knit-picking old fart. Still, any name in a storm

I didn't mean Frosty was the old fart.  I was referring to me being the old fart.  I'm just another old dog trying to learn a new trick during retirement.  

Frosty; I thought you had already won a medal in the Timber Tonsure Tap event!

Thanks everyone for your input.  Tinkertim the drawing helps make thing clear.  It may be a bit but once I get started on this build I'll post some pics.  I'm currently trying to get caught up on a few knife orders.  With the sub zero weather I have been having lately it doesn't pay to try heating the garage so it maybe a month before I start building.  Now I'm doing R&D so to speak.  

4 hours ago, Tooln said:

didn't mean Frosty was the old fart.  I was referring to me being the old fart.  I'm just another old dog trying to learn a new trick during retirement.  

We never thought you meant anything like that. However, joke material bring somewhat thin on the ground, I grabbed it in there, kicking and screaming

tinkertim,

Nice drawing. It would be great if someone collected lots of drawings like that, so that all the people who need to view them could find them...

Well . . . Okay Toolin, it's not like you're claiming curmudgeon status right out of the gate. You're good.

Thanks for posting the drawing Tink, it's a good one. It shows all the important details like burner angle to the forge floor and hard refractory liner in the flame port.

My preference just withdraws the end of the burner until it's JUST inside the ceramic blanket, leaving a much longer tapered outlet. 

I have a thing for straight lines and poking fun at my friends. Mike and I have been coconspirators for a couple decades before we met here so we have some very old in jokes. Think of Iforge as a cocktail party inhabited by around 50,000 people with a similar interest and a typical % of jokers.

Frosty The Lucky.

More jokers, I say more, lots more

With Frosty's "thing for straight lines"; I guess he will never get out to visit me, the road to my place is more a "loco gusano" and straight line drivers don't make it out of sight of the interstate exit ramp. (Though that first hard right angle curve is where I found the snap-on ratchet wrench.  I take it in second gear in my 4 banger and am considered a speed demon by some of the other drivers...)

 

 

Of course here in the Ozark's, they don't call our roads "pig trails" for nothing. When we come to a level 1/4 mile straight stretch, we thinks it's a drag strip and can blow some carbon out the exhaust pipe.

Ha my old college roommate in the late 1970's totaled his car on the Pig Trail in NW AR.

My love of straight lines won't save you two because I use turns of phrase to twist them to suit where I'm going. 

Frosty The Lucky.

Someplace warm?  (Though the 9th level was frozen over according to DA).

Warm sounds like a little bit of heaven to me right now. It's in the mid teens right now and the sun sets at 4:58pm. Low is predicted to be 2f tomorrow morning. 

So yes I wouldn't take lounging comfy warm under a shade tree with a chilled beverage and nice view as particularly onerous. Nope sounds good, DARN good.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

I've had a friend or two ask me if I moved to New Mexico as preparation for the afterlife...I told them that it could be worse it could be Yuma!

Needles?

Frosty The Lucky.

Joe Cool has that town locked up!