Gas burners available in UK?

[MikeTheMike]

I'm looking for gas burners available in the UK (need in a hurry!).

 

Anyone have recommendations? Adding a pic of the forge. Current burners Not getting up to welding temp (even with doors partly closed).

They are from a forge I bought on ebay, but that forge wouldn't get to weld temp either... and now on new forge, still won't.

Any recommendations would be great! 

Cheers in advance.

 

[Frazer]

I don't know much about burners/gas forges so I'll leave those recommendations for those qualified to make them.

That forge looks pretty big. Have you tried reducing the volume inside by adding some IFBs to the bottom? That might help and would be a relatively fast, inexpensive option.

I'd get some input on the burners before you buy anything though.

[MikeTheMike]

3 minutes ago, Frazer said:

I don't know much about burners/gas forges so I'll leave those recommendations for those qualified to make them.

That forge looks pretty big. Have you tried reducing the volume inside by adding some IFBs to the bottom? That might help and would be a relatively fast, inexpensive option.

I'd get some input on the burners before you buy anything though.

Good point! I made it a bit bigger than the last forge as I sometimes work with larger pieces that wouldn't fit on the old forge - fire bricks when working normal size stock is a good idea! Will do that.

[Frazer]

Make sure they are insulating fire bricks, not hard firebricks like you find at most of the hardware stores.

Again, I would get a second opinion before you run out and buy anything. No need to hurry that much.

[ThomasPowers]

How are the current burners working?  Perhaps they can be tuned to be better?

[timgunn1962]

First question: what are the gas jets in your current burners? Are they drilled holes, or can you swap them for smaller ones (many burner designs use MIG welder tips as gas jets)?

Second question: Where in the UK are you? It's not very likely, admittedly, but there may be someone fairly local who can help get your current burners running better. 

In my fairly limited experience, the mistake most folk seem to make is to put in too big a gas jet. This gives an excessively rich mixture and a low flame temperature in the forge. If that is what you are seeing, there will probably be a LOT of dragons breath. Run the forge in the dark and see how it looks. If it's easy to change jets in your current burners, a weekend of playing around with jet sizes will probably see you right. 

If you need to buy new burners, I would recommend using Long Venturi Amal Atmospheric Injectors from Burlen dot co dot uk. Ideally, you want the ones jetted for Butane because they give a leaner mixture and higher flame temperature on Propane without secondary air. The Butane ones are all currently out of stock. The only difference between the ones for different gases is the jet size. If you are in a hurry, some of the Propane and NG Long Venturi injectors are still showing in stock, so buying one or more of these with the extra jet(s) for Butane may be a quick option.

I'd guess those are currently 1" burners you have, but it's not easy to tell. I think you'll want 3 injectors sized to suit the present pipe.

There is not a lot of point in recommending any other burner over here, IMO/E. However, I am just some guy on the internet. Do some research online. If you can get to speak to a smith who has tried them, to get a less partisan opinion than mine, I'd strongly suggest you do so.

If those are 3 off 1" burners, it's certainly worth checking out the regulator and cylinder to make sure you are not running up against the maximum rate at which gas can be supplied. What size is your cylinder? What is your regulator?

I've had enough trouble with cheap regulators that I only ever use plugged Propane welding regulators now. At 20-30 quid delivered, new, off ebay, they have enough capacity for most realistic forges, are rugged, are finely adjustable by gloved hands and have the pressure setting scale marked on the body. Admittedly the scale is not particularly accurate, but it's not far off the accuracy of the cheap gauges you find on many regulators and is plenty good enough for me. To be honest, I'm not usually a fan of gauges, largely because they are so fragile. If you must use one, the cheapest thing I've found to work well and reliably is a Glycerine-filled gauge. Expect to pay around a tenner for a 0-4 bar, 0-60 PSI, 2 1/2" one with either bottom or centre-back 1/4" BSP male connection.

[Mikey98118]

MiG tips can be screwed into your present burners, by enlarging the gas orifices and threading the inlarged holes. Even short MIG tips will act like super-chorges on those burners. This will take a little work, but vary little expense. I would suggest 0.025" tips. 0.023" would be second best.

[MikeTheMike]

28 minutes ago, timgunn1962 said:

First question: what are the gas jets in your current burners? Are they drilled holes, or can you swap them for smaller ones (many burner designs use MIG welder tips as gas jets)?

Second question: Where in the UK are you? It's not very likely, admittedly, but there may be someone fairly local who can help get your current burners running better. 

In my fairly limited experience, the mistake most folk seem to make is to put in too big a gas jet. This gives an excessively rich mixture and a low flame temperature in the forge. If that is what you are seeing, there will probably be a LOT of dragons breath. Run the forge in the dark and see how it looks. If it's easy to change jets in your current burners, a weekend of playing around with jet sizes will probably see you right. 

If you need to buy new burners, I would recommend using Long Venturi Amal Atmospheric Injectors from Burlen dot co dot uk. Ideally, you want the ones jetted for Butane because they give a leaner mixture and higher flame temperature on Propane without secondary air. The Butane ones are all currently out of stock. The only difference between the ones for different gases is the jet size. If you are in a hurry, some of the Propane and NG Long Venturi injectors are still showing in stock, so buying one or more of these with the extra jet(s) for Butane may be a quick option.

I'd guess those are currently 1" burners you have, but it's not easy to tell. I think you'll want 3 injectors sized to suit the present pipe.

There is not a lot of point in recommending any other burner over here, IMO/E. However, I am just some guy on the internet. Do some research online. If you can get to speak to a smith who has tried them, to get a less partisan opinion than mine, I'd strongly suggest you do so.

If those are 3 off 1" burners, it's certainly worth checking out the regulator and cylinder to make sure you are not running up against the maximum rate at which gas can be supplied. What size is your cylinder? What is your regulator?

I've had enough trouble with cheap regulators that I only ever use plugged Propane welding regulators now. At 20-30 quid delivered, new, off ebay, they have enough capacity for most realistic forges, are rugged, are finely adjustable by gloved hands and have the pressure setting scale marked on the body. Admittedly the scale is not particularly accurate, but it's not far off the accuracy of the cheap gauges you find on many regulators and is plenty good enough for me. To be honest, I'm not usually a fan of gauges, largely because they are so fragile. If you must use one, the cheapest thing I've found to work well and reliably is a Glycerine-filled gauge. Expect to pay around a tenner for a 0-4 bar, 0-60 PSI, 2 1/2" one with either bottom or centre-back 1/4" BSP male connection.

First question: what are the gas jets in your current burners? Are they drilled holes, or can you swap them for smaller ones (many burner designs use MIG welder tips as gas jets)? - Yup mig tips, will check the size.

Second question: Where in the UK are you? It's not very likely, admittedly, but there may be someone fairly local who can help get your current burners running better. Newport, Wales - just over the bridge from Bristol

Amal - I am looking at these actually as you're the 3rd person to recommend them!

Attaching a pic of my reg - What do you think? Should I get a better one? When you say welding ones, do you mean mig/argon

[Mikey98118]

The regulator looks fine to me.

[ThomasPowers]

Is that 1 bar or .1 bar?  1 bar at 14.5 psi would be a bit of a high lower cut off.

[Mikey98118]

Agreed, but 14.5 PSI is about right for a lower limit for this kind of burner; no, not perfect, but adequate.

[tinkertim]

Hiya MikeTheMike,

Totally agree with Timgunn1962. The AMAL propane injectors are an excellent way to get a really adjustable burner setup. You can also easily adjust for rich or lean, to suit the type of forge environment you need.  I followed Tim's advice when ordering mine, and got 2 jet sizes to help with setup.
FYI, Owen Bush ("basher" on this website) runs a Forging school in South London, and uses AMAL injectors for all his forges.
They are not the cheapest, but as you are not in the USA you don't have to worry about horrendous postage costs.

If you get one (or more) you will need to get lengths of appropriate threaded Malleable Iron pipe to fit the AMAL injectors to. These short lengths, threaded at either end, are often referred to as pipe nipple when you search for them. Don't buy the galvanised pipe, as this can emit zinc vapour when heated, which is harmful. The recommended length of pipe nipple depends on the size of burner you are using. For my 3/4" AMAL burner, I believe the recommended length was ~8 inches.
Frosty should have some advice on the lengths of pipe nipple recommended for each size of burner.

PS. I live over the bridge near Thornbury, so not a million miles from Newport (more like 25).  You might want to put your location in you profile info, so others can see which side of the pond you're on, and whether they might be near enough to help.

Good luck.
Tink!