Zach D Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 Hey folks, I'm somewhat new to the forging community. I built my first firebrick forge a little over a year ago. It worked OK, but it wasn't very efficient. So this last month I've built a new forge. It has 1" ceramic insulation then about 1/4" refractory cement over the sides and ceiling and about 1/2" to 3/4" on the bottom. The chamber is 7" wide, 4" tall and 13" long. I'm using the burner I built for my first forge, but I'm having some issues with it. If I open my tank more than a quarter to half a turn the flame starts to puff and sputter. So leaving the tank just barely cracked open and the pressure cranked pretty high it stays solid but it seems pretty rich. I get nice blue flame inside the chamber but about 10" of yellow dragons breath of the front and back. Longer in the front when I close off the back. I'll attach some pictures if I can. I haven't been at this whole thing long enough to know if it's right or wrong. Any advise would be great! Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 Welcome aboard Zach, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you'll have a better chance of meeting members who live within visiting distance. A lot of information is location specific like: hammer ins and BBQs, tools, equipment, prices, etc. Who's plans did you follow, have you asked them about the issues? Telling me the dimensions of your forge don't do much good, I don't do basic arithmetic for people anymore. The numbers you need to take into account are: Forge volume. Burner size. There are I don't know how many pages of forge construction discussions in the "Forges 101" section here. There are a similar number of pages about propane burner discussions under, "Burners 101". NAH, don't try to read them all! There are too many and lots of posts are from people asking questions and many offering guesses as answers. They're trying to be helpful but some just isn't. Probably the best help is how to search Iforge. Forget the icky stinky super sucky search engine stuck to the site. Use your favorite search engine and include "Iforgeiron" in the search terms. About your burner, the mixing tube looks too long and the piece of pipe you have poked through the intake "bell reducer" is too large, it's blocking intake air. Not to blow my own horn but take a look at the T burner directions pinned in the gas burner section. (I think that's where it's pinned) A T burner is really easy to build with minimal shop tools and skills. Right now running your burner directly off the tank valve is down right DANGEROUS, STOP IT !!!! Buy a high pressure regulator in the 0-30psi range, they aren't that expensive. Using the tank valve partially opened like that will cause erosion to the seats and it will begin to leak. Believe me you DO NOT WANT A LEAKING PROPANE TANK AROUND! If you have to save up for a regulator you can use a needle valve to SAFELY control the propane flow, they work fine. Part of the sputtering problem is where the burner is. Exhaust gasses are exiting your forge through the wide open door, going UP and being being inducted into the burner. It's breathing its own exhaust which reduces combustion. With less combustion there's less exhaust and the burner gets a breath of fresh air. With some good air combustion and exhaust increases and the burner gets another breath of bad air. It makes the burner: pulse, flutter, go out, etc. Different burners and forges behave differently when this happens. Don't worry, we'll get your forge and burners squared away. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 Also, ball valves just can't control flow smoothly; it is your main problem. Frosty is also right about the mixing tube being too long; the mixing tube on that kind of burner should be nine times its INSIDE diameter. Deal with these two problems, and it will very likely be sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 14 hours ago, Mikey98118 said: ; the mixing tube on that kind of burner should be nine times its INSIDE diameter. Here's my 3/4 in burner with a regular 16.9 oz US water bottle for scale. Sorry my tape measure was outside. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 So far so good...next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach D Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Thanks folks for the advice. Frosty, I do have a pressure regulator on my tank, I just didn't get that into my pictures. I don't have a pressure gauge on my regulator though so I don't know exactly what pressure I'm getting. It's a 0-30 psi regulator though. And I just finished reading through your t burner instructions. My burner is a 1 1/2" to 3/4" reducer to a 3/4"x8" nipple, then a 3/4" to 1" reducer followed by a 1"x4" nipple. I have the 1" nipple set down into the top of the forge ceiling about 1/2" from the chamber. When I did my refractory I kept my 1" pipe in the hole and cast around it so there's not much of a gap between the nipple and the hole. The pipe mounting plate is solely for holding the burner in place. And my chamber is 364 cubic inches. The forge design I came up with on my own mostly after looking at many others online and on YouTube. Thanks again everyone! Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxwellB Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 First thing I would try would be removing the flare and the pipe after the flare, and just trying the burner with the 8" nipple going into the forge. Read what Frosty said yesterday a few times if needed, especially concerning mixing tubes and bell reducers. The guy really knows what he's talking about. I'm building a few of his burner designs myself, and am waiting for one more shipment of (much cheaper online) parts before it's completed. Your forge does look pretty nice though. I especially like the expanded steel stock rest/brick holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach D Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 Alright, I've done some reading, some tinkering and some building today. MaxwellB, I tried pulling the bottom reducer and pipe off. That helped but was still pretty bad. I went ahead and built Frosty's T burner with only a slight change. The hardware store didn't have a 1"x1"x3/4" T so I got a 1"x3/4"x3/4" instead. Also I didn't use a flare or thread protector at the end. The end result is so much better than before. I got it set in the forge and started tinkering with it one aspect at a time. I don't think it's perfect yet, I'll have to spend more time with it to get it just right, but it heat the forge up quickly and had a great deal better combustion and fuel mix. I'm 100% open to any advice, comments and criticism if yall have any. Thanks again for the help folks, I really appreciate it. I'm sure to have more questions as I begin to play more. Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 In both photos the gas fitting looks like it was drilled well off center. That just won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach D Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 Mikey98118 it looks that way because of the angle of the picture and because it reduces both across the top and down. I assure you, it's centered. The hole in the top of the forge on the other hand is about 1/4" back and 1/8" sideways from center, but I think the tolerance there is a bit more lenient. Thanks for the comment. Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 19 hours ago, Mikey98118 said: So far so good...next? I was trying to give the original poster an idea of the length of the mixing tube on a working burner. Haha. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 When will the correct T you ordered come in? I'm familiar with how things are in rural areas---I have to drive 80+ miles just to see an Endocrinologist! However; rural area hardware stores are generally good at ordering what you can't find. What size orifice are you using? I missed that in the description. Frankly I don't know enough to design my own burner even though I've been using propane forges for a couple of decades and as I'm more interested in the forging than tinkering for weeks trying to get a burner working right; I just use a known good design and follow it *exactly* no changes or substitutions. Then tuning it is more like an afternoon and I can consult with the designer(s) only if I have problems I can't deal with reading through the FAQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Mike: The flame is off center because the intake ports are different sizes and deflecting the flow away from the 1" intake port. No surprise, I've seen it tinkering and tried to correct by offsetting or canting the jet. A symmetrical T will make it right. Your burner is running rich, start trimming the mig tip back 1/64" at a time and debur with a torch tip cleaner. Be gentle deburing or the tip file WILL deform and enlarge the orifice messing up the laminar cone of propane necessary for good induction. One thing at a time and little changes, you're close. I really like your expanded metal porch and am looking forward to how well it holds up under the heat. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Frost, I looked at it in the expanded view and you are right! As to how the fitting works out; glad it ain't my problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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