natkova Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Is it posible to have bellows mounted badly. And so one can gave shoulder pain from, pullying and backleash of gravity when bellows paddle pull rope back. I feel like i didnt made all things properly, room is small, i would have bigger advantage if lever was longer, but i dont have that in this case. I saw some blacksmith tie rods to lever than they tie another side of rod to piece of plank, and they use it as treadle, and bellows are foot operated. But i need for that more room. Any rips how can i avoid those "injuries" And sometimes i move lever away from fulcrum toward me , but i have small power over pumping leverage, it is easy, but smaller puffs , because rope get smallwr grip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 If I recall correctly the lever is connected to the bottom leaf of the bellows with chain or cable. Yes? Why not put the fulcrum and lever under the bellows and pump it with a foot treadle. The connection to the leaf would be a simple connecting rod with single bolt or pin connections so it can move freely. You won't have the friction of the chain rubbing on the rest of the bellows if it does now. The lever will be close to foot level so you won't suffer shoulder damage. Using your legs means you can move the fulcrum so the lever has a longer stroke on the bellows and you won't have to pump it as many times to fill the upper lung. Maybe? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 That is nice idea i didnt think of that. I would just have to remove this wooden box and try that, dven without pullyes that can be done. I use rope i dont zs echain, put i think the rub a litle bit on bellows leathwer. Instead of rope thwre should be some strong ros wich would lift paddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 I think we're envisioning the same basic idea. Just the lever, a fulcrum, something connect to the bottom leaf from below and a treadle. It just occurred to me that rather than a connecting rod a rubber caster screwed to the lever so it would roll on the bottom leaf should work. Gravity will keep the lever in contact, no need to actually connect the two is there? I have to make a couple sketches and see if I can make out with some of the details of the things my mind's eye is yelling at me. I'm thinking it won't take very long strokes if the fulcrum is balanced right. I'm thinking the treadle could maybe be 15-20 cm. off the floor and apply a full stroke to the bottom leaf. Yeah, I need to do some sketching, maybe get out my popsicle sticks and model it. I'll get back in a while. I have images and thoughts rolling around in my head. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 Ok thank you i think that lift from floor would. Same lengt as opening of brlloes like 15 ,inches. But iam.not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 It is possible to have a badly mounted bellows. I knew a smith working full time at an 1860's historical village who destroyed his shoulder joint with a badly mounted bellows in the rafters. It was set up where he had to wrap the pull strap around his arm and heave downwards to get it to work. Meanwhile my double lunged bellows could be pumped to welding temps with my pinkie. (He was not allowed to make any changes to his set up even though it had been built wrong to start with!) A lot of adjustment on where the fulcrum goes and how long the pole is. You want to get a full stroke in to fill the top section; but not have to work too hard to do so. I started with a loop of rope on my bellows support top cross member with a dried ash sapling as my pole and was able to adjust it back and forth to get a good stroke. I could see where having to put in a top cross member in a different location might be necessary, but I lucked out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 I wanted yesterday to.make some adjustment and i even cut 4 inches of pole, i dont know why i did that, i gues i tought if i tie something to pole i can make it lighter to opearete , i made somethink like hook that can grab the lever, but it was not successfull. Now I tought if I make one part a litle bit heavy, mine part where I operate with bellows I think that would make it easy to operate. Yes I worked themwith "pinky" but it was too light, bellows almost were not pumping good as you pul lever away from you. And I think this lever should not move but my moved back and forth. When I was tiered and when chambwr was easy to inhale I used more leverage. When I wanted to pump more I used less leverage. But I felt discomfort more so if I add weght to top chamber. That way they pump faster but at backstroke ,, lever "hit" you by the same force your weight at bottom were tied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 On the bellows I used I balanced the bellows by adding horse shoes to the rope used to operate the bellows pole. It was balanced so the "pull down" was easy and the "go up" was slightly positive and automatic. The two together gave me an average constant air flow no matter what I was heating up. I used it for 2 years with no physical problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 I made some adjustment to my bellows. I tought if i make fulcrum a litle bit higher it will be better, iam not sure if it is, i think it is better, now when i left lever it is out of my way, i can't bang head on it and i made it longer, i think i can now make longer becasue it is out of way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 Does this sound logic? The longer "higher" rope pull board it will easyer pull it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 https://streamable.com/hn7vgo Should be fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Sorry to be so long making a couple sketches I get distracted by life and stuff. Then I discovered my dry erase markers are about done for, so this sketch isn't as clear as I'd like. Hopefully it's not to hard to make out. It's a simple lever below the bellows, the fulcrum can be moved to adjust the treadle travel vs. the lower chamber. The more I thought about it, the more sense it made to attach the caster to the bellows and let it roll up and down the lever rather the other way around. Lifting your arm above shoulder level even if it's easy work wears on your shoulder joints. A treadle lever lets you work your legs in a motion almost as natural as walking. It shouldn't do joint damage. I think you could test the idea without really changing anything, disconnect the rope and lay a board across a bucket or box to see if it works. If it does make something better. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 That looks good to me Frosty, my thoughts about the distance from the bellows connection point to the fulcrum should be further from the bellows than the OP has it whether it's from the top or bottom. With that short throw on the fulcrum now it barely lifts the bottom board of bellows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Video looks like you have too much air (lots of flying sparks) and not enough fuel depth. Gentle air to make the amount of heat you need in the fire is the goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 Thanks for scetch Frosty, i can do like that, just i will have to remove my chest under bellows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 I used kitchen sink, and pipe is buried really deep, maybe i can make it a little bit taller. https://streamable.com/9w0aox Frosty ,something like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 What Glen said. You have too much air. You are working the bellows too fast. No wonder you are sore! The amount of time for the bellows to fall should be about the same amount of time you are working your hot iron at your anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 Anvil that depent how much large pieces you heat is, i relieased if i place lot's of fuel and block tuyere, i get top chamber easy inhaled, because air is a litle bit blocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 With charcoal I like the air flow to be zero when I place a piece into the fire---cuts down on sparks. With coal it can be handy to have airflow as it helps to keep the fire from compacting as you replace a workpiece. As always---what works best for YOU is the correct way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 I tought something like this. I did frosty advice but, the leverage was so strong that i literaly moved bellows to sides, where they were conected. I noticed that when i tried to make this desing i made one mistake. I tied foot pedal instead to use loop than hang another wire/rod if you tie directly wire to foot pedal, it wont work, this way i think it can be made , just need to make one side free and other side anchored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 On 10/6/2020 at 10:18 PM, natkova said: I used kitchen sink, and pipe is buried really deep, maybe i can make it a little bit taller. https://streamable.com/9w0aox Frosty ,something like this? I'm afraid the video is so dark I can't see what you are showing us. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted October 9, 2020 Author Share Posted October 9, 2020 17 hours ago, Frosty said: I'm afraid the video is so dark I can't see what you are showing us. Frosty The Lucky. I put one board on wood chest and it lifted paddle but issue was it tend to.move bellows and frame to the left, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Hmm suddenly the DaVinci cam drive comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted October 9, 2020 Author Share Posted October 9, 2020 Thomas iam thinking on something like this mechanism. ANd i need to figure out why my lever want to stay down without pushing it, may be foot board is too heavy, than i need to make where lever meet fulcrum somehow hole where axe will go, so lever can't shif back and forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Why does your bellows move sideways? I don't have much experience using large bellows but the ones I have were mounted solidly. The center board extended beyond the leather and was screwed or nailed to the wall. You would've had to break the bellows or part of the wall to make them move to the side. If your bellows AND the pump handle are moving sideways it's no wonder it injures your shoulder. Bracing your bellows between the two posts must prevent it from moving freely so I don't see how it can keep them from moving side to side. If the whole frame is moving then you need to do something different. Yes, you have to balance the lever arm so it will return or you won't be able to pump the bellows. If the treadle board is too heavy use a lighter one. That last seems pretty obvious to me. It's exactly the same as any balance beam: scales, teeter totter, etc. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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