JustAnotherNewGuy Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Well, first post. Another new guy starts making mistakes and learning. I've been melting and casting metal for a while, mostly low temp (lead, pewter) for a couple flintlock rifles I have. Always been curious about blacksmithing, and decided since I'm home a lot more (thanks, COVID...), I might as well dive in. Saw an anvil posted without a maker's mark, but based on the one pic and the reading I've done on this forum, it looked like a Peter Wright. Overall it was in decent condition, but it had damage to the edge of the face on one side. I went out and took a look at the thing and it sure had the indicators that it was what I thought it was, so I bought it for just under $2.50 a pound, which I believe was a pretty good price. Brought it home and cleaned up the body with a wire brush, and the pics show what I found. A Peter Wright 145lb. So here's my question: The damage to the edge of that face, to me, looks pretty significant. Is this something that should be repaired or stabilized? Or can I simply ignore it and work from the other side of the anvil using the opposing side that's still in pretty good shape? If it should be repaired, what's the best way to find someone that can actually do it well? Also, if anyone has any info about the anvil, feel free to drop it here. From what I've been able to find, it's probably made somewhere between 1860 and 1890? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Welcome aboard New Guy, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many members live within visiting distance. You'll learn more in an afternoon with an experienced smith than days maybe months trying to figure it out yourself. That old lady has seen some work hasn't she? Don't mess with that edge until you've used it maybe a year. Right now you don't know if that will effect your work, once your skills develop you'll find out how easy it is to work around using the far edge. Some processes do require or are made easier by striking over the near edge or the far edge. Tong making for instance. Still it's easy to step around the anvil before losing heat. I'd hold off smoothing and or radiusing that edge for the same reasons. The horn already has a radius about the same as that chipped area would become and the horn serves nicely as a bottom fuller. However, the horn is away from the center of the anvil and offers less resistance to impact forces and can't move metal as efficiently as over the sweet spot. If it turns out you need to do heavy forging on a wide radius then grinding that edge to suit may be the better choice. Repairing that chipping is doable but you can't arc weld on a hardened high carbon steel anvil face without running a risk of doing more damage than good. A professional welding shop will almost undoubtedly say they can weld it right up. Unfortunately there are very few welders who actually KNOW the process. Please don't try to sooth up the face with a grinder, hammering HOT steel on it will smooth and shine it up nicely. Grinding takes years off it's usable life. Putting steel back on can cost more than buying a new anvil. Honest. What she needs is a good stand and put to work. Have you looked at the anvil stands threads here? Do you have a forge? A smooth face hammer 32oz or lighter? If you can answer yes to those light a fire heat some steel and take her for a test beating. ! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 That is a very usable anvil just as it is. Have you tested the ring & rebound? The price is reasonable, depending upon where in the world you are located. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherNewGuy Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 Thanks for the response, gents. I'm in the Denver area, specifically Aurora and I've updated my profile to reflect that. I did see that there was a small blacksmithing school up towards Fort Collins about an hour away, but they're standing by currently because of COVID. I did check the ring and rebound - nothing sounded dead. Rebound on a steel ball bearing seemed to be 75-80% in most places. I'm still waiting on the rest of the forge materials to show up, and my hammer selection is in its infancy. But I have read that I should not be grinding/brushing/doing anything to the face other than wiping it off and putting it back to work. I am taking a wire brush to the body so I can rub it down with some boiled linseed oil. Other than that, I guess I'll just keep watching videos and start working on it, avoiding the damaged area. I'm building the stand tomorrow out of 4x4s bolted together with allthread. Looking forward to getting dirty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I suggest that you look into joining Rocky Mountain Smiths. Various demos and meetings are currently on hold because of Covid-19 but once that is over there is a lot to be learned from the people in the organization. they also have a very good lending library of videos and books. "by hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherNewGuy Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 I'll check them out, thanks for the tip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Wire brushing the face won't hurt it unless you get really CARRIED AWAY! Once you get the surface rust and dirt off the face the ball will rebound higher. No telling how much but it'll show better rebound. You're standing the 4x4s on end I hope, stacking flat them makes a poorer stand. I use Liquid nails between timbers when I screw or bolt them together to make a solid bond. The more solid the better the stand. My older Sister lives in Littleton. I like fossil hunting the Front Range. Beautiful country, almost as pretty as Alaska if kind of small. Oh how that used to get my Sister's goat. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherNewGuy Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 After giving the face a bit of a wire brushing, it gets 80% in most places, and 90% rebound in a few sweet spots. The more I clean it up and look into the history, the more happy I am with the thing. I contacted the gentleman I bought it from and it came off his grandfather's ranch in Sterling, CO, and had been on the ranch as long as he could remember. Sterling was settled in 1868, perhaps around the time this anvil was laid down. Pretty cool. Yeah, the stand will definitely have the 4x4s laid on end. I'm planning on laying them in a 4x4 pattern, which should give me a surface of 14"x14" to secure the anvil to, and then bolting the whole thing together with allthread bolts and wood glue adhesive. The lumber is pressure treated, though, so should I put a layer between the wood and the anvil so there's no interaction between the dissimilar metals? I think the wood gets treated with copper salts. One other "off the wall" question - I have several hundred pounds of lead available. Would there be any benefit to bedding the anvil in a rectangular base of the stuff? And I'll probably be down in Littleton this weekend. There's a farrier supply shop that has blacksmithing and knifemaking supplies down that way, and a beekeeping supply as well. Small world. And I agree, the mountains here aren't quite as prominent as those in AK, but it's not quite so isolated here. It's a nice balance. I lived on Kodiak for a couple years while my dad was stationed there with the Coast guard and don't think I could do it long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I assume that you are going to Oleo Acres in Littleton. I have never been to their store there but I have been to their store near Berthoud. That is where I buy my coke. Nice folks and decent prices. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 I would set the anvil in cheap latex calking compound. That will do several things, tone down the ear splitting ringing, help hold it steady and eliminate any worry about the pressure treating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherNewGuy Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) This is the second time I've seen someone reference putting down a layer of caulk, both for stability and to deaden the ring. I would have thought that putting down a caulk layer would add some unwanted "spring" but hey, might be worth giving it a try if it's that common a practice. Thanks for the reply! Edited June 15, 2020 by Mod30 Remove excessive quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Weight of the anvil should squish out the semi-liquid calk anyplace where there would have been contact anyway and fill any gaps/voids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherNewGuy Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 Really...? At the moderator that gave me a warning for putting this post in the general anvil area and not the "Repairing and Modification" area, I did that for a reason. It was a little post about "Hey look, I got a cool old anvil, any input on whether I should worry about the face damage or use it as is? Here are some pics, enjoy" I wasn't asking how to repair it, so I didn't think it was warranted. If you felt differently, I respect that, but you could have simply moved it and said "I think this fits a little better here." Giving me a formal warning for a simple difference seems asinine. If you're trying to drive users away from the forum and keep it the old boy's club, fine, I guess. I moderate several communities so I understand the frustration, but maybe have a little bit of understanding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 You might want to edit your post to take out the swearing, or expect another warning from a moderator with warning points. From your first post, you did ask about repairing the damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherNewGuy Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 I have read the "Read This First" post, which is also why I bothered to make my above comment. The example they give is a heat treating question being made in the tailgating area, which I agree isn't appropriate. My post was an anvil post with a general inquiry about repairs being posted in the general anvil section. I didn't see any issue with that. Mods apparently felt strongly enough that I was in the wrong to issue a formal warning. And I edited out the word that may have been offensive - I'm not here to ruffle feathers. I did see your comment in that post related to language but thought that was more aimed at "seven dirty words" kind of comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 We all have good days and bad days, Moderators included. I am an insulin dependent diabetic and when my BG is going low I have to really watch my snarky side! I've deleted many a post because I reread it, (before 30 minutes have passed), and thought it too acidic. As someone who was once officially moderated for a typo; let me welcome you to the club and lets get back to smithing! Edge damage is common to old anvils and the choice to live with it or repair it is a personal one. (If you do decided to repair it look up the Gunther Schuler method of anvil repair and FOLLOW IT!) Many anvils are used with quite a bit of edge damage with no problem---I generally suggest to people to make a hardy tool with 4 edges that can be used instead of the anvil's edge if needed, (and can even have a different radius for each edge!) I have had several anvils repaired, (Using the G-S method!) over the years and have generally had them done when a local ABANA affiliate has sponsored an anvil repair day. (So far in Ohio and New Mexico). I'm thinking of having an anvil's edge repaired before selling it on, 248#, so not a large one; but still too heavy to move easily at my age. (I'm tending towards large anvils that sit in the shop in the same place and lighter ones, (around 100#), that get thrown in the truck when I go teach.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 There's a thing about the operating system IFI uses that automatically includes the "zero points forever" warning and the mods or admin can't do anything about it. If they move a post or edit it the "Forever pointless" warning gets sent. It makes me gnash my teeth every time I see it and I know it's not IFI's doing. Yeah, sometimes the mods are more picky than I think they should be but what the hey, they let us hang out with other blacksmiths so . . . Okay. You lived on "The Rock" eh? We did a lot of jobs on Kodiak and beautiful as it is, nothing is more than about an hour's drive and no loops. It's a cool place but not for long. Anchorage and Fairbanks and vicinity are modern cities with all the bells and whistles. The pan handle is great for fishing and boating. However cabin fever gets lots of folks. If you get a hankering to visit, give me a shout. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepinBoon Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Beautiful anvil. Brush off the old paint and rust and put on flax oil/linseed oil. It dries to a tacky protective coating. Use her as-is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Thomas hit it on the head. "Gunther Schuler" is not one person, it's two. Do a Google search for anvil repair and you should find it. Tack on Gunther if you want. I've never tried it under the other guy's name. I have the addy, but I don't think I'm supposed to post it. It is a personal decision. If you have the intent to have blacksmithing take up a fair amount of your time, then I'd repair it first off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 18 hours ago, anvil said: "Gunther Schuler" is not one person, it's two. Gunther Schuller, on the other hand, was one person, but he's been dead for five years. 18 hours ago, anvil said: I have the addy, but I don't think I'm supposed to post it. You can't post links to commercial sites or directly to Anvilfire, but you can certainly post a de-linked webpage domain, such as "anvilfire(dot)com". Mod note: posting direct links to Anvilfire is not allowed at the direction of Anvilfire's owner Jock Dempsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 I think this link is allowed though. An article from Anvil Magazine back in 1998. http://www.anvilmag.com/smith/anvilres.htm Or this from IFI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Lol, Gunther Schuler may be one person, but he had nothing to do with Robb Gunter and super quench. I knew there was another person involved with one or both of Robb's processes, but I've never remembered his name. I figured that Thomas was correct but just forgot the hyphen or whatever was needed to indicate two people, not just one. And thanks for clarifying on what can be posted. I've got both Gunter articles from anvilmag on this and anvil repair. Glad to know I can post them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 I usually put a / in Gunther/Schuler; sorry. I'll have to apologize to Robb next time I see him. IIRC the August meeting of the New Mexico Artist Blacksmith Association,NMABA, where he was going to demo has been canceled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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