Unknown Anvil found in Brazil

[Latticino]

Wilkinson anvils are pretty well thought of, but top plate on this one looks suspect.  Cutting shelf is too short for typical London Pattern.  I'd take a hard pass on that one.

Hopefully someone with better anvil evaluation skills can help you.  I'm not a collector, just a user.

[ThomasPowers]

Top showing a lot of dents I wonder if it's been through a fire.  Also signs of grinding!  I bet it didn't have a cutting shelf as it was a Birmingham pattern rather than the London pattern.  Wilkinson Queens Cross Dudley with the crossed sausages.

I agree: Avoid!

[HumanAfterAll]

Thanks, guys! Will wait for a better opportunity.

Latticino and Thomas Powers,

would you guys mind if I PM you when I find something interesting?

[Latticino]

Honestly, you need to find someone more versed in anvil evaluation than I am.  I'm not even sure what you are after with this effort.  You stated earlier that you already purchased an anvil for your own use.  If you are just starting out as a smith, you don't really need another.  If you are planning on being a collector, they look at different considerations than I do, which is primarily functionality for the anticipated tasks.  If you are investing in "anvil futures", you need to establish what your market will be.  If that is what you are doing asking me if an anvil is "worth it", I have three things to say:  First, I have noticed that recently used anvil prices have started to go down in my area - so be prepared for the current bubble to potentially burst.  Second, you need to factor in a method for inexpensive shipping of your anvils to the final customer.  Third, if you are just planning on flipping anvils for profit, please don't expect free evaluations from me (there are a couple of Facebook sites you might prefer).

Also, your profile photo of Luiz Fachin?

[ThomasPowers]

No I wouldn't mind; but pm's don't get to me any faster than posts. I also currently don't have internet access at home. (My wife refused to allow the ISP to put holes in our metal roof for an antenna when we get up to 80 MPH winds every spring. The ISP refused to mount it to the side of the house.)

[HumanAfterAll]

On 5/14/2020 at 8:59 PM, Latticino said:

 You stated earlier that you already purchased an anvil for your own use.  If you are just starting out as a smith, you don't really need another. 

I seems like the way I shared so many anvils and asked a lot of question of type "should I buy it" made me look like someone who's trying to make profit on the anvil market. This is not the case. My goal is: to find a nice anvil for myself that has great quality (that's why I'm looking for English, Swedish and American anvils, instead of Brazilians) for when I get the space needed for a nice shop (hopefully on the near future). Both that, and the good opportunities that are showing up here in Brazil, led me to ask that many question on the quality and if the anvil is a good choice or not.

Do not be worried, I'm not trying to make money on other people's knowledge, and even if that was the case, I'd not be wanting knowledge for free.

Sorry if that seemed the case. I'll look into making myself clearer on the future.

On 5/14/2020 at 8:59 PM, Latticino said:

Also, your profile photo of Luiz Fachin?

Nope, that's Rolando Lero, a character created by the late Brazilian comedia Rogério Cardoso.

He was, in my humble opinion, one of the best comedians in Brazil, if not THE best. It's a shame that, even if there's some of his material subbed in English, the kind of jokes he made would probably not be very funny in English.

And although Edson Fachin is not a comedian himself, our judiciary system is... That's life... 

12 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

No I wouldn't mind; but pm's don't get to me any faster than posts. I also currently don't have internet access at home. (My wife refused to allow the ISP to put holes in our metal roof for an antenna when we get up to 80 MPH winds every spring. The ISP refused to mount it to the side of the house.)

Thanks! 

I'm not after you answering faster, as it may have seemed. I'm just worried that I'm still posting stuff that is not totally related to the topic original question. If that's not a problem on this forum, I won't be sending anyone PM's any soon. hahahah

Cheers, all!

[ThomasPowers]

As I said, not a problem.  I for one am enjoying seeing what anvils are available in Brazil, or the UK, or Sweden, or Australia, or...

[Latticino]

1 hour ago, HumanAfterAll said:

Nope, that's Rolando Lero, a character created by the late Brazilian comedia Rogério Cardoso.

Not familiar with that particular comedian, but the photo has a real "Mr Bean" vibe.  Kind of freaks me out, but I didn't want to say anything in case it was an actual personal photo.

Thanks for clarifying your intentions.  I'm all in favor of gearing up well (kind of a tool junkie myself), but do want to caution you that time spent at an anvil is far more valuable than time spent searching for the best one.  Post here all you like, if I don't feel like answering I won't.  I'm sure there are plenty of others who can help as well.

[Frosty]

That's really too bad you missed the Soderfors anvil. I have a 125 lb. Soderfors and it out performs my 200 lb. Trenton and the Trenton is a top tier anvil. Keep your eye open for another. Soderfors is a major foundry in Sweden, making anvils was more a sideline for them and they shipped anvils everywhere. 

I'm glad someone asked about your AVATAR, being a comedian is WAY less creepy than it being a pic of someone I'm enjoying talking to. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Latticino]

2 hours ago, HumanAfterAll said:

Rogério Cardoso

Remarkable transformation.  Hardly looks like the same guy:

[HumanAfterAll]

9 hours ago, Latticino said:

Not familiar with that particular comedian, but the photo has a real "Mr Bean" vibe.  Kind of freaks me out, but I didn't want to say anything in case it was an actual personal photo.

Yeah, Rogério Cardoso, like Ronald Golias for example, also late, liked a lot to make faces and abuse their facial features. Both very funny.

For me, I love to use those kind of pics as avatars, as it gets from people that exact reaction that you and Frosty: thinking it might be a personal photo. It's just my stupid sense of humor... hahah 

I often use this one too: 

I've already had people asking if that was my son and I just lol when that happens...

9 hours ago, Latticino said:

Thanks for clarifying your intentions.  I'm all in favor of gearing up well (kind of a tool junkie myself), but do want to caution you that time spent at an anvil is far more valuable than time spent searching for the best one.  Post here all you like, if I don't feel like answering I won't.  I'm sure there are plenty of others who can help as well.

No problem! An you're quite right, it's better to have an anvil and use than to have THE anvil and never use it.

Thanks for the advices!

9 hours ago, Frosty said:

That's really too bad you missed the Soderfors anvil. I have a 125 lb. Soderfors and it out performs my 200 lb. Trenton and the Trenton is a top tier anvil. 

Yeah, I agree. Had I had enough money at the moment I found it, I'd had bought it.

But one good thing happened, the owner had already sold some other two Soderfors before that one, and as you guys helped me help her find out the other anvil was a Norrisez, she told me that as soon as she gets her hands on another one.

Cheers!

9 hours ago, Latticino said:

Remarkable transformation.  Hardly looks like the same guy:

Indeed

=)

[Frosty]

You so fit in here. We love a good joke and a good visual for a reaction is primo.

Frosty The Lucky.

[HumanAfterAll]

That's good!! Thanks! 

[HumanAfterAll]

Latticino, ThomasPowers

Updates on the history of that Wilkinson's: According to the owner, the anvil came to Brazil, more precisely to Sorocaba, São Paulo, to be used during the construction of the "Sorocabana" railway.  If that's true, then that might be a quite old anvil, as the construction of the Sorocabana railway started on June 13th 1872, and expansion took place up until 1957.

The best source I found is from the Brazilian Wikipedia. It's in Portuguese, but if you're interested, Google should solve the problem.

Cheers!

[ThomasPowers]

Perhaps, of course maintenance was done on that railroad as long as it was in use.  My main shop anvil came from a railroad repair shop when they stopped forging their parts locally.  One of the forge team members, took the anvil home with him and I bought it years later.

[HumanAfterAll]

53 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

One of the forge team members, took the anvil home with him and I bought it years later.

That moment when you simply put an anvil under your arm and take it away from your work. 

Does your anvil also have a lot of dents on it's side?  Why and how railway workers did all those?

[Latticino]

Dents or chisel marks?  The latter are pretty common on older anvils.  The story is that the anvil sides were used to test whether the chisels had been correctly hardened.  

Dents could be from mis-hits or even ongoing use.  A blacksmith can make use of all parts of an anvil, not just the hardened top face.  Some of those lovely curved surfaces make for nice swages for beating out curves as well.

[ThomasPowers]

No my 469# Fisher was pretty much in pristine state.  It was the anvil for a Blacker powerhammer.  If the person had stuck it under their arm and walked off with it; I would have opened the door for them and wished them "Good Day"!

[HumanAfterAll]

2 hours ago, Latticino said:

Dents or chisel marks? 

Chisel. Meant chisel marks!

2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

If the person had stuck it under their arm and walked off with it; I would have opened the door for them and wished them "Good Day"!

Indeed.

[HumanAfterAll]

Hey, guys. 

Another Wilkinson showed up. What you think of this one?

70KG and about $345.

Also, have any of you ever heard of an old Brazilian anvil brand called "AV" (which stands for "Aço Villares" - Villares Steel)? It seems to be pretty well accepted here as a quality anvil. I'm trying to get a guy I know that owns one to make a rebound test video so I can share with you. They're way cheaper than any foreign anvil...

The company was founded in 1944, was controlled by Sidenor on the past and has, since 2010, been controlled by Gerdau a major Brazilian steel producer.

In case any of you want read a quick history of the company, Google can help with this.

Cheers!

[Latticino]

Looks like a great user at a fair price.  See if you can get them to throw in the stand and tongs...

[HumanAfterAll]

Owner said no... And it seems it's gone, unfortunately. I'm almost out of luck. 

Almost. 

Take a look at this. 50kg and $220. I'm almost sure this is a Kohlswa, but the owner told me that there's nothing written anywhere. What you think? 

I'll have more pics of the face tomorrow and I'll post it. 

 

Cheers! 

 

[Latticino]

I'd buy it at that price, immediately. A European pattern I'm not that familiar with.  From my research, a classic French pattern, not too common here in the states.  Collectors would probably love it, and looks like a good user as well.  Just make sure it is cast steel, not cast iron.

[Frosty]

Looks to be in pretty good condition providing it passes a rebound test that's a good price. I've never used an anvil like that so I can't comment on their effectiveness. 

With the way the Corona virus is flaring up in Brazil you might start seeing more anvils for less money before long. Finances will start tightening up soon, I hate to take advantage of other's misfortune but buying things from them is helping them where they need it. 

Be safe, be well.

 Frosty The Lucky.

[HumanAfterAll]

3 hours ago, Latticino said:

Just make sure it is cast steel, not cast iron.

28 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Looks to be in pretty good condition providing it passes a rebound test that's a good price.

I'm looking for a 1" bearing to see if I can go over there and test it. Never done it before, though... I've been reading the Beginner's Buying Guide, do you guys suggest any other material I can read/watch?

32 minutes ago, Frosty said:

With the way the Corona virus is flaring up in Brazil you might start seeing more anvils for less money before long. Finances will start tightening up soon, I hate to take advantage of other's misfortune but buying things from them is helping them where they need it. 

I understand what you're saying, but yes, it's better to buy from people when it's cheaper than not buy at all.

One piece of info that might be important to give us some tips on the material: the owner told me he removed all the paint and used some sort of anti-corrosion solution, hence the black color. IDK if this is useful information, but that's what I got up until now. 

Cheers all!