Unknown Anvil found in Brazil

[Frosty]

A 1/2" bearing is more than large enough though a 1" bearing  might not be as likely to bounce at an angle as smaller. Still large bearings won't tell a person anything a smaller one will and you can carry a couple 1/2" bearings in your pocket all the time without noticing.

Brushing the rust off and treating it with a rust preventative won't hurt. Even if it's a nasty preservative you usually don't do any forging on the sides or bottom so smoke and fumes aren't a hazard. If you do use the sides and bottom you'll want to strip the mystery preservative and apply something safe.

I like Trewax, carnuba paste wax. but Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO) is a good choice. Paint is a good preservative. Some guys prefer a rust patina.

If you want to put a rust inhibiting finish on it there a lot of choices and you'll need to reapply or touch up whatever you choose as needed.

 Frosty The Lucky.

[HumanAfterAll]

On 5/25/2020 at 1:46 PM, Frosty said:

A 1/2" bearing is more than large enough though a 1" bearing  might not be as likely to bounce at an angle as smaller.

Found out that ball bearings are not something that easy to find around here. Found whole new bearings, though. Ordered one 1" and one 1/2" steel ball. Should arrive today.

Also, when you say, Boiled Linseed Oil, is this a pure linseed oil or does it contains solvents too?

[ThomasPowers]

Boiled Linseed Oil usually contains driers to make it polymerize much faster;  sometimes including solvents.  Boiling was the method that used to be used to accelerate the polymerization process.  Raw linseed oil can take a long time to "dry" and not be sticky. (Exposure to Sunlight, (UV), helps.)

One way to help date old oil paintings is to check how much of the linseed oil has polymerized. Oil Painting Forgers know how to accelerate this nowadays.

[Frosty]

The vagaries in content in boiled linseed oils is one reason I like Trewax. I have Trewax finished, forged plant hangers that have been outside in Alaskan weather since the mid 90s without showing weathering. Carnuba paste wax is my go to finish unless otherwise called for by a customer. Some folk WANT beeswax or BLO so that's what I give them after I recommend a Carnuba finish. 

 Frosty The Lucky.

[HumanAfterAll]

50 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Boiled Linseed Oil usually contains driers to make it polymerize much faster;  sometimes including solvents.

Thanks, that's what I thought, since pure linseed oil is way harder to find over here, at least.

39 minutes ago, Frosty said:

I have Trewax finished, forged plant hangers that have been outside in Alaskan weather since the mid 90s without showing weathering.

Will stick to my ol' Brazilian carnaúba... hahaha

[HumanAfterAll]

Ok, so I found this. No brands or any identification marks. Looks good, but I don't understand a lot... Guy told me it weights around 90Kg and he purchased it on a city nearby that is know for it's train and railway history (Paranápiacaba). Don't think he knows what it's made of...

He's basically giving it away for $47 (yes, forty-seven).

I'm coming over to "test" it tomorrow or by the weekend (but I want to go ASAP as I don't want let this slip).

Now, the two bearings arrived today (1" and 1/2"). What should I bring with me? The ball bearings and a hammer? What should I be looking at? Is the fact that it has no pritchel hole a no go?

Cheers!

 

 

[Chris C]

If it were me doing the testing, I'd prefer a 1" ball bearing.  Can't tell you anything about the anvil.  All I can say is if it's 90kg and has more than a 90% rebound I wouldn't be able to get the money out of my wallet fast enough.  I can't see any markings on the anvil, so have no idea what it is.

[HumanAfterAll]

4 minutes ago, Chris C said:

All I can say is if it's 90kg and has more than a 90% rebound I wouldn't be able to get the money out of my wallet fast enough.

Let's hope this happens!! hahaha

Are there any guides here on how to measure the rebound rate?

[Frosty]

17 minutes ago, Chris C said:

If it were me doing the testing, I'd prefer a 1" ball bearing. 

What makes a 1" bearing better than a smaller one?  

Drop the bearing on a cleaned off anvil face and estimate how close to the starting height it returns. If you aren't good at this kind of estimation doing it with a ruler behind it is more accurate. 

 Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

I just used my browser's search function, (not the IFI search function!), with:   ball bearing test site:iforgeiron.com     and got 962 hits.

BTW using a ruler marked in inches and dropping from the 10" mark gives you the rebound reading in percentage! 8" rebound = 80%;  7" rebound= 70%, etc. Metric you have to do the math because you don't want to drop it from 1 meter!

a Pritchel hole is not a deal breaker. (You can always make a bolster plate to use.) Rebound and sound is.  Personally I would not buy an anvil with rebound in the 70's and less---of course I would make an exception for very large anvils that traditionally were softer after heat treat then smaller ones.  I much prefer mid 80's and up!

Loose anvils should have a clear ring to them when tapped: TING.  Anvils fastened down may not have it.  Now the exception is for Fisher and Vulcan anvils that will not ring; but are still usable anvils---the Fisher is a good anvil and the Vulcan is an ok anvil---in my opinion. An anvil that should ring and doesn't may have a hidden crack in it; perhaps the faceplate delaminating---if it's loose as fastening an anvil down properly can kill the ring too.

[Chris C]

40 minutes ago, Frosty said:

What makes a 1" bearing better than a smaller one?  

Well, Frosty, that's quite simple to answer.  I like the 1" bearing because it's what I have.

[Donal Harris]

What is the exchange rate?  I have a gamer friend who lives in São Paulo.  He is a pilot, so he could live anyplace he chose to. I am beginning to understand why he chooses to live there. He is paid in USD, which based upon anvil prices, means he lives there for just a little higher than free. 
 

The last anvil you posted a picture of appears to have had some grinding done on it, especially around the step area. If true, you wouldn’t want it. Repair done correctly is fine. Repair done wrong will leave you with dead spots and pretty soon, chipped edges. 
 

A 157 lb. Sodefors sold here in Oklahoma last year for $750. Except for a bit of rust, it was near mint. I almost bought it, but the guy wouldn’t budge on the price.  At $750 it was a very good price, but I generally won’t buy anything from an individual unless the seller moves a little of their asking price. I just checked. That is 4,053.67 BRL.

Any Mouseholes?  They are the undisputed King of All the Anvils, but for some reason the prices don’t seem to reflect that. 

Just saw your $47 post. You are being a bit cruel now. 

[HumanAfterAll]

2 hours ago, Frosty said:

Drop the bearing on a cleaned off anvil face and estimate how close to the starting height it returns.

This might sound stupid, but when you say "cleaned off" you mean that I should (hand) wire brush/sand it a little?

2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

BTW using a ruler marked in inches and dropping from the 10" mark gives you the rebound reading in percentage! 8" rebound = 80%;  7" rebound= 70%, etc. Metric you have to do the math because you don't want to drop it from 1 meter!

Will look for a imperial ruler. Should the result be the same at any height? Should I be testing from several different heights?

2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Loose anvils should have a clear ring to them when tapped: TING.  Anvils fastened down may not have it.  Now the exception is for Fisher and Vulcan anvils that will not ring; but are still usable anvils---the Fisher is a good anvil and the Vulcan is an ok anvil---in my opinion. An anvil that should ring and doesn't may have a hidden crack in it; perhaps the faceplate delaminating---if it's loose as fastening an anvil down properly can kill the ring too.

Is this video a good example?

2 hours ago, DHarris said:

What is the exchange rate?  I have a gamer friend who lives in São Paulo.  He is a pilot, so he could live anyplace he chose to. I am beginning to understand why he chooses to live there. He is paid in USD, which based upon anvil prices, means he lives there for just a little higher than free. 

Yeah, if he's paid in USD he's taking a really great deal of Brazilian economic crisis right now. Can't say he lives for near nothing, but he sure lives a comfortable life. The current rate is 1 USD to 5.4 BRL. I'm still being paid in BRL - but now that I'm working at an USA company, I'm working hard to change that on the future! 

2 hours ago, DHarris said:

Any Mouseholes?  They are the undisputed King of All the Anvils, but for some reason the prices don’t seem to reflect that. 

Not so far. Only came across Soderfors, Kohlswa and a Wilkinson, besides the Brazilians (AV, Somar, Correauto) and some unnamed ones.

2 hours ago, DHarris said:

Just saw your $47 post. You are being a bit cruel now. 

I can't say that I feel bad... hahaha

 

[Latticino]

Honestly, for $47, just buy it.  No matter how bad it is it could be used as a portable hardy hole, but I suspect at close to 200 lbs it could be used for plenty else.  You would have trouble getting scrap steel here at that price.

If you want to test it with a  bearing, just brush the dust and/or rust off the surface and drop the bearing from a height of 20 to 30 cm.  You don't need to find a imperial ruler, metric will do just fine.  The ideal anvil would be up to 90% of the original height.  Personally I'd gamble on taking that one IMMEDIATELY and not be concerned about any potential issues, but that is just me.  If it rang on the top surface and didn't sound cracked I would feel vindicated.  Even if it is cast iron, at that weight and price you could use it to learn good hammer technique.

I wouldn't wait till the weekend.  Go get it!

[SLAG]

Wood workers' stores and drafting supply vendors should have imperial measure rulers for sale. There is no real need for same but it does save a few minutes cyphering the conversion.

Many such rulers have both metric and imperial scales on the same instrument.

SLAG.

[Donal Harris]

Ask before you go dropping a ball bearing on someone’s anvil. They shouldn’t mind, but it would be rude (in Oklahoma anyway) to not ask first. 

[HumanAfterAll]

12 hours ago, DHarris said:

He is paid in USD, which based upon anvil prices, means he lives there for just a little higher than free. 

Was thinking about that and concluded that: stuff here and usually costly. Being paid in USD is obviously better, but the price of the anvils does not reflect our reality. 

I've been thinking a lot about the blacksmithing tradition here in Brazil and I'm most certain that basically there's none, except for knifemakers over the south, which was also colonized by Germans and had Polish come in later, besides Italians.

We're a late industrialized country and I think that most of these great anvils came to the country during the construction of railways (starting on 1832 by an British company on Rio de Janeiro) - during this time Brazil was still an empire.

So what I think happens is that most people that own a Soderfors, Kohlswa, Wilkinsons and any other good anvil, basically don't know what they have on their hands, and this makes the prices be low. The few that know, will also no try to charge the "same" as over there in the USA, as there'll be no one to buy, as anvils are unused, 'cause we're not a blacksmith rich culture.

You can see big differences on anvil prices when looking for anvils over the three south states (but mostly Rio Grande do Sul) when compared with anvils from São Paulo and other states above the south (want to say "northerner states" but São Paulo is technically on the central-west, so...). They're way higher over the south, because there's people to use them.

9 hours ago, Latticino said:

I wouldn't wait till the weekend.  Go get it!

Going today. Still trying to make a time work.

[Frosty]

On 5/28/2020 at 5:28 PM, HumanAfterAll said:

This might sound stupid, but when you say "cleaned off" you mean that I should (hand) wire brush/sand it a little?

No, not stupid, I wasn't very clear. By clean, get as much dirt and crud off it as is reasonable or it will inhibit the rebound of a bearing or hammer. The cleaner the better but sanding is getting carried away. 

 Frosty The Lucky.

[HumanAfterAll]

Hey, guys. I'm back.

So, it seems that the anvil was a scam. The owner started having some weird behavior by not answering phone calls and my messages on Whatsapp and not being at the time and place we scheduled to meet. Then he got back again saying he was traveling to a nearby city to get some cars on an auction, and then went missing again.

Unfortunately, the one time I managed to speak to him over a phone call I gave him my home address as he offered himself to deliver the anvil that supposedly was on the back on his truck. Now, I might be a bit too afraid of people wanting to rob me, but heck, I live in Brazil, so no caution is too much caution.

I should've been suspicious of the price, but I got carried away with what seemed a good opportunity. I'm still not 100% sure that it was a scam of some sort but his erratic behavior led me to think so and I chose to get my hand off the thing...

16 hours ago, Frosty said:

By clean, get as much dirt and crud off it as is reasonable or it will inhibit the rebound of a bearing or hammer. The cleaner the better but sanding is getting carried away. 

Thanks. Will do this if any other opportunity shows up.

Cheers, all!

[Chris C]

Be EXTREMELY careful when following advertisements for anvils............or anything for that matter.  I had one of those "too good to be true" offers that I finally realized was just a setup for me to show up with $400 cash to be robbed.  I got suspicious and contacted the local Sheriff's Department in the town and explained what was going on.  After giving the Sheriff the name of the guy, he said he was a felon and had been convicted for just this very thing in the past and it was good I shut down the "deal" when I did or I could have been robbed and harmed.  Later, I was talking with a good friend of mine who is a Sheriff's Deputy and she said the next time I do a Craigslist (one of our trading sites in America) give the seller the address of the local police departments parking lot and make the exchange there.  They have cameras all around the police station and at least there would be a recorded image of the bad-guy's license plate and pictures of him/her.  I've done exactly that since and have felt a whole lot more safe during the transactions.  Too many scam artists in our world today.

[Frosty]

I remember you telling us about this incident Chris, it's a good cautionary tale. If you can arrange the exchange for shift change you might even get an officer or two to attend the exchange.

Being cautious is smart but you can't be so cautious you stop living. It can be a hard call. 

 Frosty The Lucky.

[HumanAfterAll]

I had several meetings with people from Brazilian sites like Craiglist and have never given my address... Always met them on very public places.

IDK what happened to me this time... Anyway thanks for all advises, guys. 

[Chris C]

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

I remember you telling us about this incident Chris, it's a good cautionary tale. If you can arrange the exchange for shift change you might even get an officer or two to attend the exchange.

Being cautious is smart but you can't be so cautious you stop living. It can be a hard call. 

 Frosty The Lucky.

"Better Safe Than Sorry", Frosty.  I don't consider that "stop(ping) living".

[Frosty]

Sure isn't but I didn't grow up with helicopter parents either. One of my Mother's favorite warnings was, "If you hurt yourself you're getting a spanking when we get you home from the hospital." They almost never said you can't do .. . whatever but the often said don't. Dad was famous for saying don't do. . . X then tell us how to do it. Seems the folks knew the stronger the warning the greater the temptation so Dad gave us the best shot he knew for experimenting without making B A D mistakes. 

Well, there were a couple few times Mother resembled a helicopter parent, an ATTACK helicopter. Donn't mess with the momma!

 Frosty The Lucky.

[Chris C]

Amen to that!