facium Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 I have some basic curiosity questions about forges. what temp range are we talking about for the perfect forge? does using coal or gas make a differance to your material? would heating the metal to a forge temp without the presance of any fuel or O2 (ie argon or CO2 bubble) be of any advantage? I know some of you will be tempted to tell me how impossible this is, but the question is could you find any advantage to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 1: Depends on what you are doing 1500-2300 deg F is a good range 2: yes coal can create sulfur contamination of the metal 3: yes it would be a great advantage in decreasing oxidation of the metal especially for forgable allows of Ti. Also really help in forgewelding. It's not impossible just usually not cost effective. Induction forges with their very short heating times get around a lot of the problems due to oxygen and can be used in an inert box fairly easily too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facium Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 electricity was not the power source I was considering, but thanks for the info. I need to do some math Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Cold Fusion? Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 No. . . Coal fusion. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facium Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Solar, prabolic mirrors redirected strait down into a ceramic crucible filled with an inert gas that is heaver the air. instant free energy. like frying an ant with a magifiying glass. gunna take some time to figure the curve and size of the mirrors, and the angles to redirect it down into the crucible. I'll figure it out and build a prototype (I live in Arizona, we got lots of sun shine) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Caradoc Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 talk about a space age forge If you get that to work I would love to see pics and a blueprint.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facium Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 biggest problem is tuning it off and on, I can automate moving the mirrors (to turn off the forge have the computer move them out of focus). I don't have the money for that (and it would raise the complexity of the blue print considerably). I need to find a low tech solution to either cover the mirrors (about 5 square ft) or flip/turn them so they are out of focus. I have the mirror size and reflection angles figured, just working on the funtionality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I designed a solar forge once based on a solar array plans from a 1970's Mother Earth News. it used the 1' sq mirror tiles on a grid for the array and even had a simple tracking circuit using a electric window motor to move the array. I planned to have the beam enter a highly insulated refractory box through a slot to allow for some slop in the pointing. Then I lived throught the first spring out here and the very high winds taught me that I would never be able to use it as the winds would destroy it. Now in blacksmithing we don't use crucibles; we are not melting or smelting metals we are heating them until they get soft and then mechanically shaping them. So the temps I gave are *forging* temps not melting temps! Sounds like what you are interested in is melting or smelting and so should track down something like the back yard metal casters site and discuss furnaces with them rather than forges with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facium Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 please excuse my use of the word crucible, it was not my intention to to melt but to heat the metal for forging. I was thinking of using a crucible because it would hold the inert gas (co2 being heaver that air), resist the heat, and be readily available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Caradoc Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 to shut it off could you use a rolling sky light to just cover the mirrors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facium Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 an excellent suggestion, I will keep it in mind. of course for the test prototye I will just throw a tarp over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draper84 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Just be careful, that when you are putting on and taking off the tarp, not to mess up the mirrors, then it will be all thrown off. but it sounds like you are taking all precautions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Sounds like con...fusion to me. It'll be interesting to know how much focused mirror surface would be necessary to heat 4 inches of 1 inch square solid to forge welding temps.... More than you think, I'd be willing to bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenC Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Have you looked into blast furnaceses or pot forges? These are two methods I know of that reduce metal contamination by contact with coal. If you pretreat the coal and burn straight coke you also reduce sulfer and other impurities. Also either method could be easily converted between gas and coal. I have seen some pdf files showing these techniques in the "Blacksmith's Manual, Illustrated". Hope this is of some use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hill.josh Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I really like the idea and wanna know how this works out. Out of curiosity though.. the crucible is relatively shallow compared to pieces of stock, so it seems like only the ends could be heated unless there was a hole in it.. which would be dumping the CO2 out. Not trying to put the idea down, just wondering about how thats suposed to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnptc Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 at what temp does CO2 breakdown ( disassociate) ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Disassociation of CO2 happens at different temperatues depending on whether or not there is a catalyst or electric current present. Up to the burning point of steel it does not disassociate with out special circumstances. Not a problem in most normal forges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob JS Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 This might be of interest to you. Its from a UK series I saw earlier in the year - they want to make enough energy from the sun to manufacture petrol from scratch, but the clip shows what they can do to steel. (and a sausage) james may solar - Google Video does look like there is a lot of faff to get the thing set up. If the link doesnt work for any reason, just type 'james may solar' into google video. enjoy, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musika Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 A solar furnace is not an unrealistic idea. But you do realise that you will need a lot more than 5 square feet of mirror to get even a reasonable tempurate. I lived in New Mexico for a few years and one project which i enacted was a solar grill. Using nothing more than an old grill from the local scrap yard and sheet of 1mm Aluminium. Bending the sheet into a half pipe, I managed to get it to heat hot dogs to about 150 degrees F. But enough of that... I don't quite remember where but i have seen a solar furnace which heats up to 3000 degrees C. (Melts most metals) But it used hundreds of mirrors and was spread over a half square kilometer... Just my 2 cents. =] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Leppo Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 why do you ned to "turn off" the forge? We coal-burners don't put the fire out when we are not heating a workpiece, we merely pull the piece from the fire. Could the solar beam not constantly heat the chamber? You could turn it off manually when not in use by tarping the mirrors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverDamForge Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) I looked into this last year - you can find all kinds of info about solar furnaces, from the hillside of mirrors in France to guys with fresnel lenses out of big screen TVs. "Solar death ray" will find a bunch of mini versions that people use to burn up things (the pyros!) - one guy glued a bunch of old CDs to a piece of a satellite dish. ETA: One guy made a plywood frame and mounted a bunch of mirrors to a truck chassis so he could move the whole array for sun tracking. If you did something like that you could just move the whole array away from the sun. You're talking about heating in a crucible, I was thinking more of an oven. But will either get hot enough or will they start reflecting (reradiating?) too much heat? The biggest thing is to protect your eyes. The sun is too bright to look at, never mind when it's magnified 100X. Edited April 20, 2009 by BeaverDamForge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Muffle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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