Lets make a deal for an anvil

[jlpservicesinc]

On 8/11/2019 at 9:23 PM, Frosty said:

I wish, people have been trying to get hi to sell it for decades to the tune of several thousand dollars. He says he uses it to straighten things when he needs to. 

I ended up dealing with the guy I got my Hay budden from in a way that worked for him.. It cost me a little more but it's what I could do. 

I had stopped and asked him about the anvil several times and he kept on saying. "It's not for sale". 

I finally showed up one day and said " I have a 150lbs anvil with good ring and a decent enough shape. Would you be willing to exchange the HB for this other anvil with some extra money thrown in"?? 

It cost me another 150.00 plus the 150lbs anvil but was all the happier to have 175lbs Hay Budden. 

Maybe strike a deal like that.  

I actually prefer old anvils as they show all their secrets.  New Anvils hide their secrets for many years. 

[Frosty]

That's a good thought Jennifer, I'll have to see if he's talking to people not needing a vehicle repaired. I've said a couple few times I'd be more than happy to let the Trenton go for a Soderfors in the 200 lb + range. I probably won't be able to talk Deb out of the difference though. Maybe if I whine enough. Heh, I have plenty of stuff I can sell in the club. Any idea how hard it is for a packrat to turn loose of things? <sigh>

I'm much more pragmatic about tools and equipment. I rate function at the top and history near the bottom. Functionality depends of course, I've helped a few museums around the state: organize, ID and set up dioramas to reflect an actual working smithy. In that situation history is the primary and function is a lesser part of the story, maybe descriptive of the story is a better way to say it. I am FOREVER removing upside down top tools from mannequin's' hammer hands and explaining what they are and how they work. You see it in movies all the time. The curator of the Wasilla museum seems unable to listen. I mention being a blacksmith and he launches into a shpiel, ears off, mouth running, to get me to hot rivet a boiler and donate my kit and buy coal for a living history display. The blacksmith display is just a jumble of mislabeled tools, after years of offering to organize and label the display. It's really frustrating I live less than 5 miles away and can't make a dent.

When it gets down to moving metal though I'm uninterested in the tool's: history, age, story, etc. none of those things is a factor in the effectiveness of a tool. When I'm making, results count, then economy, bang for my buck or effect for the effort, however you like to word it. Probably one of our greatest philosophical differences is I do not do things the hard way if there's a better alternative. My early learning comes from a production shop environment and training, no business can last if it's priority is hard work over economic results and quality. I always, ALWAYS look for a: better, faster, cheaper way to do everything. Improve any one without sacrificing another means more profit. Any business that sacrifices profit margin for a philosophical desire isn't competitive. 

It's a core philosophy, bred and trained into my being: better, faster, cheaper, easier always trumps: name, age, history. Those count for wall hangers, not working tools. And THAT is the only reason I'd consider trading in my century old Trenton and selling some of my, no kidding, "antique" tools on a superior working tool. 

It's a good suggestion Jennifer, sorry for getting off on a tangent. . . AGAIN. <sigh>

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

sounds good.  for some reason, you want to come back to efficient usage of time.  

If you want to do things as fast as you can then so be it.  If you feel like your time is better spent somewhere else then that is ok too. 

I on the other hand.. I Am not a full-time smith anymore trying to make a living off the items I make. I work hard all day and get home and putter. Mainly because I'm 2 tired to really care as to time.. So, Don't even care to. So, if it takes me a little longer to make the item I want to. then this is the only important aspect of it.  
 
Anyhow,  Your time is your time..  Use it any way you'd like..  LOL..   

We've had the conversation about the videos and why I take so long doing something.. LOL.  it's because I can to get it to that just-right aspect and will move or bend the metal till I am happy with it.      No matter how infuriating it might seem to others.   Yippy kai A.. 

Wait till you see the new video on Mandrel making for a Tomahawk series..  You are going to be shaking your head and your hairs will stand up on end.  Was even infuriating for me.. LOL.

I upset a 7/8" round bar to 1.25 Sq just to make it roundish again.. LOL. 

[JHCC]

On 8/11/2019 at 9:23 PM, Frosty said:

He says he uses it to straighten things when he needs to. 

Lisa complained for twenty years that I had an anvil on the floor next to the living room couch. I assured her that it was the perfect thing for cracking walnuts.

[Frosty]

2 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

If you want to do things as fast as you can then so be it.  If you feel like your time is better spent somewhere else then that is ok too

It isn't about going fast, it's about making the time and effort you invest count for as much as possible. We're only born with ONE thing on this Earth, time. From the moment of conception we're living under a death sentence. I want as much for it as I can get.

I'm getting old and I'm damaged: my eyesight isn't so good, I'm unstable on my feet, my eye hand isn't so good, I'm not so strong anymore and I hurt all the time. The arthritis in my thumbs really stinks, it's hard to do things if it hurts to hold the tools. 

Not looking to compare: aches, pains and scars, we all have them. My point is, like you I hurt, get tired and am in no rush so why in the world would I hit something several times when I can achieve the same result with one or two blows? I often work more slowly so I don't have to work as hard to achieve what I'm after. You'd be surprised how often I can get more done in less time by going at a deliberate pace instead of working hard and fast. I don't have to correct as many mistakes, spend as much time in corners or toss as many rejects.  

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

Frosty I really appreciate you being concerned about my time. Your a very kind person. Much appreciated. 

[Frosty]

Now you're making me blush. I was just trying to explain the why of how I do things in general. 

It's good to have friends Darlin.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

I picked up a 400+ pound Trenton from a fellow who was tired of moving it; but still wanted to be able to smith some day in the future. Traded a 125# PW with a bad edge, a postvise screw and screwbox I had laying around and US$100.I had about $200 in the deal; of course the face was damaged from copper mine maintenance using it as a fixture; but after I moved it 1500 miles out here we had anvil repair day using the Gunther/Schuler method and it's all pretty now.

It had been made in Columbus Oh; sold to a copper mine in AZ, sold to a fellow who moved to the outskirts of Columbus OH, Who sold it to me in Columbus OH and I moved it to New Mexico...around 6000 miles on it I reckon.

Got another 165# HB by trading a Wilton cadet bullet vice for it; I had bought the vice for $15 at the local fleamarket...used blacksmith mail to get it home; a student of mine left it on the floor of the shop to see how long it would take me t notice it...Not Long! I did pay my friend for shipping it for me IIRC (pre TBI).

Trading is often a matter of managing folks self conceptions or trading something that's not special to you to someone who does find it special. 

[Chris C]

You must be really good at it, from your stories, Thomas.  Me, I'm not a trader.  I've never come out on top.  I'd just as soon buy.............dicker over price and come to a satisfactory one and shell out the hard earned cash.

[ThomasPowers]

A good deal is where both parties are happy *after* they get home with it.  I'm terrible at dickering.  Usually at the fleamarket idf I see something I want I'll set a price in my mind and then ask. f it's at or below my price I'll just pay and not bargain.  If it's above my price I'll offer my price for it and walk off if they don't agree. Sometimes Ill tell them they are way out of line on the price---last visit a fellow wanted US$4 for a ball peen hammer head, nothing special. I told him I bought at $1 and he said I was way out of line.  So when I bought one on the other side of the aisle about 4 dealers down, I waved it t him and held up 1 finger---the index of course---to let him know they were selling at that price at that spot and that time.

[jlpservicesinc]

I know a few people that can walk up to just about any one and they have that buying or selling jedi mind trick. 

 

It's like people can't help but throw money at them when selling and items at them when purchasing. 

Some people just have it.  

Not me.  I'd like to write something snarky " like I have 2 good arms, a keen eye, and an above average mental acuity"

Or that " I'm amazingly good at hard work and that alone is worth the price of admission" again something snarky. But got nothin..

I'm happy for them, but the contrast is just that different.   

 

 

[Frosty]

Sure, some people have a natural knack for horse trading, like any other skill, Jennifer. It is however a learned skill and there are some basics to being successful: #1, Never give the impression you WANT a thing, it shifts advantage to the other person. #2, be ready to walk away, an aspect of #1. #3, isn't an always but I tend to, Make a counter offer and make it low or high enough you  have room to give a little in the bargaining. (low if you're buying, high if you're selling) #4, Look for flaws and exaggerate their impact on value. #5, don't get TOO chummy, friendly of course but don't make friends, they ARE the opposition. An aspect of this is not to talk about things you want to use a thing for or any significance it has. These are shifting the advantage the wrong way.

These rules lead me to respond to the "Vintage, Antique" description with old rusty, lots of work to get it in working condition. I flat out tell them I don't pay extra for rust. Rare? NOT unless it actually is. Don't be afraid to bundle what you want with what's on the table, floor, where ever. Don't buy one hammer if there are more you or a friend can use. You can negotiate volume discounts more easily than you'd think. Once you show interest it isn't unusual to walk with an all or nothing deal for the whole lot. I've never had to pay more than what I've already bargained for what I want. On a couple occasions the seller has rooted through the garage and brought out more to add to the all or nothing sale. I have several tables and a nice wheeled cart too, same same.

It's actually fun if you're NOT looking for something you really need. Once the seller figures out you NEED a thing the price stays high or goes up.

Of course I admit I enjoy meeting new folk and chatting them up. Coupled with Dad hauling me to every equipment, usually a bankruptcy sale/auctions I was free to go to taught me the tricks of bidding and bargaining. I don't know if it's a natural knack or a skill learned at an early age and honed.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

It is amazing how many "rare" items can actually be found in the early Sears Roebuck catalogs and often as the lowest grade version offered.

[Glenn II]

Thanks for the above advice, Frosty! Guess I've been doing wrong all these years... I usually end up buying High and selling Low. Plus, throw in some time and money for parts to get it functional again.

[Frosty]

On 9/3/2019 at 12:02 PM, Glenn II said:

I usually end up buying High and selling Low.

My strategy for playing the stock market!

Frosty The Lucky.