Identify anything here?

[Fearless]

I'm giving a talk  later in the year about a range of local photos which have been chosen for me, and this is the only one related to blacksmithing. I only know what I've read in the last two days online, but basically all I can say now is that this is possibly about 200lb or thereabouts, and he was just starting to make an iron horseshoe. Can anyone identify the anvil or tell me anything else about what you may see in the photo, ie tools, clothing, shop... anything? The date is c.1888 and the blacksmith is somewhere in Radnor, PA (USA). His name is Chris Downs, but he doesn't seem to appear in any available census or local directory. It also looks like there is the edge of a brick forge on the extreme left of the photo. Need some expert help, so thanks in anticipation!

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome... have you read this yet? READ THIS FIRST

Knowing your location may help, hence the suggestion to edit your profile to show it.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

You have probably seen this already. Christopher J. Downs Blacksmith from 1902.

https://delawarecountyhistory.com/radnortownship/RADNORDIRECTORY1902E.htm

[Fearless]

Yes, thanks, but the site owner sadly has no more specific location details. But what about the anvil, tools, shop, etc? Any info. at all would be wonderful. All I can say at the moment (from my ignorant standpoint) is:

"Pictured here “spreading” or “forging” the end of a cut piece of iron to make a standard iron horseshoe on a traditional “English pattern” anvil, also known as “London style”, approx. 200 lbs in weight. Forged wrought iron - the best kind. Stand made from a solid piece of rock. Hardie hole (square) with hardie cutoff in slot. Pritchel hole (round). Heel (square end). Horn. Tongs, which he probably made himself. Blacksmithing sledgehammer (long handle and heavy head). Another hardie cutoff (for cutting metal) resting on stone at front. Chisels and/or gouges /punches at left side. Square porter holes in the waist are used for carrying the anvil during manufacture and are typical of older anvils. Edge of forge can just be seen on the left made out of fire bricks. Some kind of chart depicting a horse on the wall. Blacksmiths could be both farriers (horse paraphernalia) and wheelwrights. Clothing: improvised farrier chaps over several layers of clothing. The phrase, “Beat the daylight out of it” came from shaping metal either around a cone mandrel or the anvil horn."

Any/all corrections/additions welcome. Many thanks all.

 

[Kozzy]

I'm not sure that is going to be a horseshoe.  When you zoom in, it seems a bit "light" for a shoe, except maybe for a pretty small horse.  However, I don't make shoes for a living so it's just wild opinion.

What seems odd to me is the hardy tool in the anvil.  It's beat to heck and a bit of a weird shape when you zoom in.  There is a quite good hardy cut-off tool on the block so I have to assume the one in the anvil is some sort of forming tool...that's been well used.

The end of the hammer handle below his hand seems pretty chewed up for some reason (again, in a zoom).  The polish from use is about where his hand sits which shows that he tends to choke up on the hammer a bit.  Handle is also running pretty long and thin for the apparent head size.  

Horse poster on the wall is probably a calendar..the kind with the months on a separate sheet at the bottom as guessed due to the change to much more "white" paper.

Where are you deciding the stand is stone?  Looks to me like there are some nails (heads of nails) in it when looking closely.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I agree with Kozzy, the anvil stand looks like it is cut from a large tree stump, which would be more in fitting than stone.

[pnut]

I agree with everything kozzy said. One other thing, do you think the picture could be staged? Depending on what type of camera took the picture would make a difference as to whether it could capture the motion of a hammer swinging so clearly. Early cameras required long exposures. 

Pnut

[Fearless]

I'd considered this Pnut. It would certainly have been staged or the arm would be blurry, especially without a lot of light. This reproduction is from a glass plate incidentally. I also agree the base may have been wood; so many carvings apparent. Thanks also to Kozzy - some excellent observations. Please keep them coming!

Edited July 14, 2019 by Mod30
remove quote

[ThomasPowers]

Please don't say "English pattern" as there are SCADS of various patterns that were made in England; like the Birmingham Pattern for instance. It's configuration---heavy waist ----definitely makes it look like it was made in England and as mentioned; in the London pattern.

[Fearless]

Thanks for the advice. "London Pattern" it is. I've just discovered him in the 1900 census, which reports that he came from Ireland in 1888 with his family - supposedly the same year as the photo. Might he have brought his anvil and tools with him, or is that a totally daft supposition?

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

If he was a blacksmith in Ireland he more than likely did bring all his tools and anvil with him. Check for him on the Ellis Island site.

[Frosty]

Fearless: You need to stop making editorial comments as they are modern myth, not fact. 

On 7/14/2019 at 12:20 PM, Fearless said:

Forged wrought iron - the best kind.

Wasn't true in the late 1800s as cast steel anvils were making a strong appearance in the USA and there were a lot of complaints from anvil manufacturers that wrought body anvils couldn't match them. 

Nor do you  know what he was beginning to make, IF ANYTHING. It's just a bar on the anvil. Definitely a posed photo everything was a time exposure and the subjects had to hold very still. His eyes are closed or nearly so, nobody could hold their eyes open for a photo without blinking and that showed. You don't see smiles on faces from early plate photography, the muscles in your face would begin to cramp and ruin the picture. A frown is a relaxed expression and easy to hold. This is why folks in old photos tend to be looking slightly downwards with drooping eyes and grim. He's holding the hammer almost vertically and the anvil face is very high on him, belt level maybe, he may be leaning on the base with his knees to help hold still. The anvil being this high is suspicious as most smithies were NOT single person operations and that anvil is WAY too high for strikers. Bear in mind this is an inside shot so the exposure time could be a minute or longer, there is no evidence of a flash in use. The hammer face would reflect a flare that would wash out the pick, etc.

The forge would NOT be fire brick, it would be red brick or maybe local brick of whatever color local clays fired to. 

The anvil block is obviously wood, you can see the grain in the section that was split off under the heal and the angled plate (whatever it is) is nailed to the block.

When you give your talk or write the report try to approach it as an analysis of the photo, try NOT to get into talking about blacksmithing. I'm not dissing you when I say you don't know enough to separate old B.S. from modern urban myth, we see it all the time here. I'm REALLY glad you're asking a motley bunch like us, I think it shows you're more interested in facts "as we know them" than video game and FIF blacksmithing.

Planning on taking up the craft? We'd just LOVE to include you in the legions of addicted metal heads. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[pnut]

I always thought beat the daylights out of it meant wailing on something till the sun went down. Good to know.  Forming something tightly around a mandel or anvil horn makes sense.

Pnut

Edited July 16, 2019 by pnut

[MrTMichaud]

He may also be choked up a bit more on the handle of the hammer in order to steady it for the photo.  Also, that is simply a wooded plank sitting on 2 iron brackets, used as a shelf, probably for extra tools used in making an item.  Oftentimes a smith will need tools, other than the hammer and tongs, close at hand.  Those tools could include various top tools and bottom tools for swedging the work.  Often with the help of a striker.

[Fearless]

Frosty: Thanks. Exactly the comments I need. And have no fear. I have about 60 secs max. to talk about each of three dozen photos typical of late 19th century life here in rural Radnor. I don't want to be completely ignorant of this man's trade; nor am I his apprentice, but I hope to be able to convey a small something evocative of a bygone era which will inform and entertain. I think the question uppermost in an audience's minds may be, "What was he making?" - so my comment will be that pretty much everything these guys made started out as a metal blank. This could have become a handle for a tool, perhaps a small horseshoe, a small part for a carriage, etc. - the idea being that I can give people examples of the potential behind a thin strip of non-specific metal. I deliberatlely speculated out loud above in order to provoke a response that would give me more truth, so thank you for that.

Incidentally, I've found another photograph which "probably" contains the same guy about 20 years later where he looks to be the oldest man on the job just a mile down the road. It shows that he was relatively short among his peers, so your observations about mis-matched working height could be fair. When you worked in a team back in those days I doubt you got to lower the anvil when it was your turn to play. However, it's not something I'm pursuing, so that speculation won't become public.

Your craft is one that definitely appeals to me, but the closest I ever got to working with metal was making leaded light windows as a hobby many years ago, and I'm glad to see that the houses where I installed them now boast the windows (quite wrongly of course) as a period feature. Perhaps one day they'll appear on a forum such as this, where people will be speculating who came up with my one-of-a-kind designs!

Chris Downs had a long and happy life. He came across the ocean as a widower with two daughters to start a new life with the special skills he probably already possessed. I just wish I had the names of some of the characters in our other photos.

[Fearless]

MrTMichaud (or anyone!): Why no tools on that small shelf? Would a smith's set-up be so perfect that there's no vibration to bounce tools onto the floor, (or have they already dropped?!) Or, since it's just a posed set-up, was a clean shelf simply more to the photographer's liking? And might we have a hunch as to a manufacturer of the anvil? Is there any significance, or clues, from the missing chunk from our nearside of the plate? Just want to be sure we've covered all the possibilities before I stop bothering y'all and move on.

[MrTMichaud]

The shelf is empty, most likely, because that's how the photog wanted it.  The missing bit of the face plate is because the anvil was being used.  There could be dozens of reasons, all of which would be conjecture on my part.  As far as maker, that is beyond my current level of expertise. 

[ThomasPowers]

Note: High level craftsmen would definitely bring their tools.  Lower level might not own any tools except for their journeyman set they made, (Hammers, tongs, punches---stuff they could carry when they travelled.).  Remember most smiths worked for other smiths that owned the tools/shop; *or* they worked in factories!

One aspect in emigrating to the US was the possibility of setting up your own shop; a lot more room here!

[Fearless]

ThomasPowers: Excellent point. He was only 22 when he arrived, and though he may have started his career at a very early age to my mind he would only bring an anvil if he'd inherited one, surely? We may never know.

[ThomasPowers]

Doesn't look like it's had enough work on it to be very old.  Unless you can dig out the daybooks from a historical society and find one that mentions purchasing it.  22, I wonder how he had the money to emigrate unless he was sponsored.

[pnut]

It wasn't unheard of for landlords to pay for their Tennant's immigration as a means of clearing their property.

Pnut

[ThomasPowers]

Even in the late 1880's?

[SLAG]

Mr. Fearless,

Has speculated that

             "When you worked in a team back in those days I doubt you got to lower the anvil when it was your turn to play. ",

If they could not lower the anvil for him,  then they could have raised him.

A movable 'shelf' was all they needed to accommodate him and other 'less tall' smiths.

Just sayyin',

SLAG.



[pnut]

19 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Even in the late 1880's?

Yep, all the way up until the founding of the free state. In order to sell an estate it had to be free of tennants. I can't remember the term for it but the better landlords instead of turning the people out would ship them to America. It was much more common in the 1840s to 1860s though.

Pnut

[Frosty]

1 hour ago, Fearless said:

He was only 22 when he arrived, and though he may have started his career at a very early age to my mind he would only bring an anvil if he'd inherited one, surely? We may never know.

This is another bad speculation. In the day 22 was NOT young it was middle age and if he apprenticed he certainly would've saved and bought his own kit were he considering emigrating to the US. If he didn't he would've found himself indentured here and blacksmiths were valuable tradesmen.

Rather than speculating on WHAT he might have been going to make, how about spending a little time talking about the plastic nature of HOT steel/iron? A smith could've forged that stock into anything from a jewelry box hinge to a component for a river boat walking beam engine. Just because you're holding a small piece doesn't mean the finished product will be small.

Iron is the original thermal plastic and can be made into anything a person is good enough to make. Watch spring to ship's anchor.

It's a posed photo, who knows if that shelf was ever on the stand when in use. Were it my setup I'd use the two visible brackets to hang tongs, the shelf appears to be leaning out so I don't think tools would stay.

MY kit includes a small steel table, about 24" square with an expanded metal shelf on the spreaders to allow hot items to air cool. I hang my hammers from the anvil and my tongs from the forge. There is a tong rack on the far side of anvil stand but it's for "call" tongs, tongs I might need in a hurry. My hammers hang on the close side in plain view and convenient height. 

I've thought about making a small shelf under the anvil's heel to hold punch lube maybe coolant but I haven't in the more than 20 years I've had my anvils on these stands. My tong and hammer racks wedge between the anvil foot and the stand's rim to keep everything secure but easy to disassemble and move.

But, I work solo 90+% of the time my setup is nothing like a turn of the last century shop. 

That may not of been the shop he worked in, or his anvil. Large turn of the century shops often had several work stations with the person's tools and equipment in their rented space and may not have worked at the same time as other tenants. 

Frosty The Lucky.