Frosty Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 You CAN get hydrophobic silica to mix with water if you use a "wetting agent" like, "Jet Dry". If you're going to get your hands in it add a couple DROPS of dish soap. For the price I'd just drive to the plastics supplier and but a can of the right stuff, it's cheap compared to the work of getting the wrong stuff to mix. It CAN be done though. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Frosty, you need to copy this advice in the refractory section; it is too important to let slip away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 It'll get moved in if it's worthy. If you and I mention it every time we talk about rigidizing ceramic blanket it'll grow a shelf of it's own in forge maker's brains. A little Jet Dry makes it easier to mix any dry material with water. If you can get it "Sodium Laurel Sulfate" (SLS) is THE stuff, it's what makes: Jet Dry, Finish, car wash soap, your shampoo, etc. wet material and it's in everything. I looked for some but couldn't find an online listing anywhere near to me. We used it a LOT in the soils lab, when I was a lab rat anyway. We had a gallon jug if the straight stuff about the consistency of honey under the sink in the soils lab. We'd draw maybe 15 ml. I don't recall but it was very little, dilute it in about 500 ml. of water and set that bottle in front under the sink. When we needed to refill one of the gallon bottles of working solution we measured IIRC 50 ml. into the jug and filled it to 1 gl. and swished it around. I have no idea what the % SLS is in Jet Dry but it must be traces, the solution we used in the lab would wet wax or cool tar and we'd only put a little lab bottle squirt in maybe 2-3 gls. in the sink. Anyway, a drizzle of Jet Dry in the water will make anything wet. I thought I'd talked about this before but it's a handy trick. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Frosty said: If you can get it "Sodium Laurel Sulfate" (SLS) is THE stuff, it's what makes: Jet Dry, Finish, car wash soap, your shampoo I just looked at my shampoo bottle and sodium laureth sulfate is the second ingredient listed. I think it's more than a trace but unfortunately they don't list percentages just ingredients in descending order of amount from greatest to least. Good info to have filed away for when I need it. Pnut Edited August 17, 2019 by pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 13 hours ago, Frosty said: If you and I mention it every time we talk about rigidizing ceramic blanket it'll grow a shelf of it's own in forge maker's brains. I was hoping for the same thing with posting the "Read This First" link all the time. That hasn't seemed to happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said: I was hoping for the same thing with posting the "Read This First" link all the time. That hasn't seemed to happen though. Yeah but it's mostly for the new folk and they need help navigating IFI. The old hands who don't get it probably never will, I try not to worry myself with folk who can't or won't learn. Life's too short. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 The last generation always has little patience to spare for the next, BUT, it's their time. We had our day. Grin and bare it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 No how big a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into some people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North State Posted August 17, 2019 Author Share Posted August 17, 2019 Pnut, i saw where you called it hydrophILIC, but when I searched it, -phobic came up.your reaction was no initial thought too! I was like do what?Anyhow, i re read the consolodated notes, but I am sort of an idiot. My wife gets ill at me alk the time because she can TELL me something and I wont rememember it. If I actually SEE something, I stnd a better chance of comprehending and remembering. I will go back and re-read as well as search HYDROPHILIC again! I really appreciate your patience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North State Posted August 17, 2019 Author Share Posted August 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Frosty said: Yeah but it's mostly for the new folk and they need help navigating IFI. Frosty, Irondragon, Mikey, and others, Thanks so much for the patience. I am sure there is a considerable bit of ignorant stubbornness with us newbies, but its mostly information overload for me. SO MUCH GREAT INFORMATION! Being as green and ambitious as I am, I find it difficult to retain all that I am reading. I sure wish I lived near you experienced blacksmiths so I could have a better look at the concepts you talk about on IFI. Anyhow, thanks again. I will try to wrap my head around the ideas you're throwing out. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 No problem, hydrophobic means it doesn't like water. It doesn't readily absorb water. Hydrophilic means it will readily mix with water or it likes water. I feel likeI've learned so much in the last 8 months it's crazy. It's a pretty steep learning curve in the beginning and easy to get information overload. It helps me to get a pen and paper and take notes. I'm 44 years old and that's how I studied when I was growing up. We didn't have laptops but however you do it I find taking notes helps me remember things and it makes the information much easier to retrieve later when you need it instead of trying to find it in the Mt Everest of info here. I'm glad you're making progress and remember it's supposed to be fun so don't let it stress you out. That's why I have hobbies, to relieve stress not create it. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North State Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 AMEN Pnut! When I typed -philic and got search results for -phobic it didnt make sense to me either. I knew the -phobic properties... anyhow. I got this from the consolidated notes: Ridigizer: I bought fumed silica on Amazon and made my own using Jasen’s recipe. "...used a cup of fumed silica in a pint of water. Idk if it's proper amount but it worked very well on my forge." Add a drop of food coloring so you can see the rigidizer and ensure coverage. Per Frosty: It’s is critical that you butter the wool by spritzing it with water prior to applying the rigidizer. Do this for both layers. The rigidizer should run between layers and bond them together somewhat after the second firing. Are the "Fumed Silica" and the "Colloidal Silica" the same? and How much does it matter? Sorry if this has been addressed already. I found this link and we have a West Marine right here in New Bern, NC. link removed per TOS Wow! What a long URL! Just for the information of the forum... I found this somewhat overwhelming, but ultimately useful: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?78902-Colloidal-Silica-vs-Fumed-Silica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North State Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 Sorry about the link not being allowed. not only do i have to learn how NOT to build a forge, I am learning a considerable bit on how NOT to post on a forum! Moderators, please forgive my ignorance. I truly dont mean to cause you heartburn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Any time I go to a new forum, it's a learning curve. Can't tell how many warnings I got when I started posting on a traditional muzzleloading forum. Too bad it didn't have a thread like this. READ THIS FIRST Would have made life much easier for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North State Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 Right! I will post pics once I go ahead and get and apply the rigidizer. Meanwhile, I will ponder on how to apply the castible. I want it to look as clean, sharp and smooth as possible, but i realize that pouring it will be practically impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 We used a flexible plastic spatula like body shops use to apply Bondo. It worked both for the Satanite and bubble alumina we used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North State Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 Ok Irondragon, I had never thought of a Bondo squeegie! I will give it a try! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 3 hours ago, North State said: Are the "Fumed Silica" and the "Colloidal Silica" the same? and How much does it matter? Sorry if this has been addressed already. Fumed silica is a silica product; when mixed in water it becomes colloidal; that is to say that it will remain suspended in water. Many heavier than water substances become colloidal, if they break down into small enough particles. \ This is what is important about colloidal silica, because those tiny particles make a very fine layer of of glass dust on ceramic fiber insulation. The glass dust layer is very thin, except where the fiber stands of the insulation cross each other; where they accumulate enough to weld the contact points together, when heated. The vast numbers of "welded joints" are what transform the fluffy insulation into a stiff form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North State Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 Very good explanation, Mikey98118! I had read something about that, but your confirmation and laymen's terms made sense! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 North State: First off we weren't directing any of our griping at you, we were talking about some of the folk who have been on the forum a long time and still don't know what they're doing. Fuming silica is a method of making it colloidal. You'll see different preferences in different places, I got mine at a plastics supply fabrication outfit near me. We had a long talk about it and while fumed may be better for rigidizing ceramic wool blanket it's not a must. Virtually any colloidal silica will do the job for you. Take your time and if you don't understand something ask. Answering your questions isn't frustrating like folk who don't even bother to try and find out first. You'll get used to the type if you read the forum very long, I thank there's a prime example posted as we speak. We're all visual learners we do best if we can: read/hear it, talk about it, see it, try it, lather rinse repeat. Yeah? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North State Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 Thanks Frosty. I found like 5 quarts of fumed silica on a particular online marketplce named after a large South American river for around $20. Seemed the best deal I have been able to source. I m going to run with that and see what turns up. Also, if you compare this photo with the one before i busted out the castible, you see i still have the bolts tacked to the shell for support. With the bolts, my previous form left a forging cavity or fire box aproximately 7"x19" cylindrical. I took my 2" wool and split it into around 1" thickness. I plan on rigidizing that 1" and then add g another layer of 1" wool as per previous posts, then apply castible on top of that. My question now is, is it ok if my cylinder shrinks to around 6" diameter by the time I get the castible in? Or should I not go so narrow? The 7" felt really good as far as my limited experience goes. I just dont want to get too small... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 5 qts! What are you planning on, rigidizing the neighborhood? I bought a pint can for $8.00, used maybe 1/4 cup an the leftovers revive with a little swirling. Don't worry, I know you're a little gun shy right now but nobody's going to warn you about mentioning sellers or retailers. We can say look for, Don's brand, "Fumed rabbit droppings" on Amazon we can't post the link. Yes? Don't sweat the curve, every time the OS clowns upgrade the Software we all have to relearn how things work. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North State Posted August 19, 2019 Author Share Posted August 19, 2019 Neighborhood? I guess so! I literally laughed out loud! I am on my third go round on this liner thing after all! I just didnt want to come up short! How much would you recommend then? The pint like you used? As for getting moderated, I figured caution is the best practice. I got moderated last night for the link and a euphemism for being extremely angry at someone, and just on another thread, I have seen straight up cuss words. I digress, I know keeping all of us in line is no easy task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) Don't forget to put a couple drops of food coloring in the spray bottle when you rigidize the blanket it makes it easier to see where you've sprayed. When you put the castable on have you thought about making the shape of the interior of the forge like a capital D with the flat spot on the bottom? Don't get discouraged now. You're almost done. You'll feel like you accomplished something the first time you fire it up and get the interior up to a nice high incandescent orange. Keep at it. I don't know anything about gassers except the crazy amount of reading I've done here but others do. You can see the finish line now. Pnut Oh yeah nearly forgot. If you see a post with cuss words let Glenn or the mods know. They don't catch everything. Glenn wants a site that your kids or grandkids, Mom or grandparents can look at with out having to worry about what they might see. I think it's refreshing to see a place on the internet not filled with foul language and foul ideas. Edited August 19, 2019 by pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North State Posted August 19, 2019 Author Share Posted August 19, 2019 Sounds good, Pnut. I look forward to getting her lined and lit off! I was just having a chuckle about getting moderated. Its no big deal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.