45-70nut Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 I am starting a new project soon, a hand and a half knights templar with a 30" blade and a fuller. With the tang it will be 39". This is to long for my oven so I am thinking of tempering using 2 short sections of 1" round stock and holding them into the fuller while hot. Has any one used this method before or should I just build a tempering oven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Search the site for "tempering tongs". Also, the Knights Templar were a military order who used a lot of different swords at various points and places in their history. Do you have a number from the Oakshott typology that corresponds to the sword that you're making? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Method been in use for decades if not centuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45-70nut Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 The typology would be an XIIIa. A hand and a half, 30" blade, 39 o.a.l., with a fuller running down 2/3 of the blade. Im planning on forging in the fuller using 1" round stock for the dies, and for the tempering tongs. Im hopeing to blue the spine while getting the edge to a straw color. I have some experience in chasing colors, but not on a double edged sword and not of this length. Any advice? Or flaws in my plan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Any possibility of doing a snap temper to straw on the whole blade and then go back and draw the fuller to blue; perhaps even with the straw edges in water soaked sponges? Swords are scary when hard and brittle as a minor accident can result in catastrophic failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45-70nut Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 A snap temper is possible but only if i can figure how to do it in hot oil. I have not had good luck with this method as it always seems to draw the hardness back too far. Any advice would be helpful in regards to tempering in oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Biggest problem is to get the oil uniformly heated and measuring that heat. Convection usually causes hot and cold areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Maybe an oil-compatible immersion circulator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 then there is the issue of currents causing warpage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 I've heard of that for quenching, but is it still a concern for tempering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Usually no but this seemed to be getting into Austempering, which is quench and tempering in same fluid heated to tempering temperatures so it cools then starts tempering in one operation basically forming bainite <over simplified> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Thanks for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45-70nut Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 That may explain why my first swords heat treat was so odd. After two failed tempering attempts I let the oil cool to 150 F, heated the blade to about 1650 F and held it in the oil a good 30 seconds, when it cooled, a file wouldnt touch it and it flexed nicely. It seemed to already be tempered. After testing extensively I did eventually do an oven temper, for good measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Are you confusing hardening with tempering? Did you normalize first? Multiple steps to heat treating! (And each has a specific name and process) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45-70nut Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 I did normalize first, and hardened two seprate times but both times when I tried to temper in oil it overdrew the hardness to the point where the blade would no longer flex but would bend. The oil was only 325 F, forcing me to abandon my approach. I do know the heat treat process, but i am still learning the science behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45-70nut Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx This link best describes austempering. I believe this best describes my last heat treat. I may have found my new favorite meathod, but further testing will need to be done. I do like the idea of quenching and tempering in one opperation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 That material is already covered in the pinned thread on heat treating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 there is absolutly no problem in tempering in oil or low temp salts from a technical POV. there is no reason that oil would over temper a blade at a gvien temperature and one of the reasons to use oil or salts is that they do circulate thus regulating the temperature. I have done over a hundred swords this way. you will need a thermocouple of some kind though. If somthing is going wrong I would look at your overall HT. also check for decarb that can lead to soft outsides on the blade causing a file to bite into the skin and a blade to take a set rather than springing back a little post HT grinding can remedy this. the currents causing warpage in tempering ??? never heard of that but sword blades do move whenever heated or cooled. A word of warning though. hot oil or salts are potentialy dangerous and I have had a couple of tubes of 250C oil boil up out of the tube because of moisture in emulsified oil on a blade and cool oil on a blade going into hot oil....I no longer use this technique for that reason. so be carefull and do your research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45-70nut Posted April 6, 2019 Author Share Posted April 6, 2019 Thank you basher that was very helpful, and yes, I will be doing more research along with testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 I was referring to the current during the quench phase, things dont always come out correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.