John Becker Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Here is the drawing I'm going to reference for my question: So I want to start making some arrowheads, and I've seen lots of people form the sockets on a hardie tool like in drawing (2). My anvil is a railroad tie plate that I found lying and collecting rust, like in drawing (1). I am thinking of making a hardie tool, made from a rail spike since they're perfectly sized for the hole in the plate. It will slide in from the bottom, and a pin (4) will hold it in place (3). I suspect this will work fine if I only do light work on this tool, what do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Welcome to IFI! If you haven't yet, please READ THIS FIRST!!! A tie plate will not make a good anvil, especially lying flat. You might be able to make it work standing on edge, but even that's not great. Using a RR spike as a bickern for arrowhead sockets might work, but you're going to need to have it much more securely fastened. Take some time to read around the forums (especially the sections on improvised anvils) to get some better ideas. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Aside from the tieplate as an anvil, the spike as a bickern set up like that will most likely loose up or be loose, and it will wobble and be hard to use since you'll be chasing it around. If you have, or can find a spare stump you could forge a spike on the head end and drill into the stump and mount it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Becker Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 Thanks guys, I'll put my head to the problem and come up with something better. As to the plate anvil, I know it isn't very good (we have a poor quality anvil on campus and even that is way better), but it's what I got so I make do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Well, just keep your eye out for an 8#+ sledgehammer head or chunk of steel as an improvement. Use what you have till you find or can afford something better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Becker Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 Daswulf, a sledge would work much better? I'm unsure of the exact weight but that plate is heavy. Does depth of the steel have a large factor in things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Yes the thickness matters; why we tell folks to do heavy work on the sweet spot of the anvil---where it's metal all the way down. Why we tell folks who have a 2" thick slab to mount it on edge to get the max amount of steel under the hammer. And I hate to tell you but a tieplate is pretty thin and light in the scheme of forging things. Shoot I have section of dozer plate that weighs 50 pounds and has two 1" hardy holes in it and I consider it "light". 8 pound sledge is good and 16 pound one is better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Thomas put it well. Yes, depth matters. You can forge more efficiently on a vertical mounted 3" round sledgehammer face than having 8-10" face 1/2-3/4" thick of plate steel mounted flat. I initially passed on the tie plate anvil because of the main question, sure, you can forge on it, but man, is that working hard for little. Depth of the mass even if not as large an area will work better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HojPoj Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 I've posted it before, but for reference that's a sledgehammerhead sunk into a log. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Becker Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 Thomas, you mentioned the "sweet spot" is where there is metal all the way down, this leads me to believe that the cross section directly under the work is the most important, and I can only think of one reason. Perhaps with increased depth there is more cross sectional area under the perimeter the piece, which would decrease the shear stress on the anvil steel which would decrease deformation in the anvil, allowing more on the energy from the blow to go into the work-piece (Like even though it's just elastic deformation, I feel like by the time the anvil steel releases that energy the hammer blow is already over, so it's basically useless). Does this sound sorta right, or is there another explanation? I think I'll also ask one of my professors what he thinks next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Instead of trying to figure it out that way; do the experiments. It is what it is. Remember that they once proved theoretically that a bumble bee couldn't fly? Their "thinking" didn't trump reality. Now if you want a thesis you could model how the impact is propagated through thick vs thin pieces and how the wave of deflection interacts with the inertia of the anvil and how that affects the "efficiency" of the blow. I only have a couple of BS degrees and am quite willing to accept that my thoughts probably do not take everything into account. However after 38 years of smithing I do know that working over the mass of the anvil is more efficient than working over unsupported or thin parts of an anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 John, you are surrounded by better anvils. Look through the improvised anvil thread and where to find them. I could scrounge up a better anvil in an afternoon of driving around to places like rental yards, repair shops, heavy construction companies, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Becker Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 Well, I did what you guys suggested, and I started down at the scrap yard. Found this guy (there was like 10' of it, but I had the guy cut me 18") in about 15 minutes. I got it at 40 cents a lb, 140 lbs. This ended up way easier that I was expecting it to be (besides the digging through piles of snow at 2 degrees part). So would it be best to mount him with the 18" end vertical? Or would the way he's mounted now be good enough to justify the increased stability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Nice anvil. Get it mounted vertically and get hammering! You can radius the edges a little on one end and leave the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Not knowing how you plan to use it makes your question moot. I would go for vertical mounted in a slot where I could turn it horizontal If I needed to. Lovely piece you might even consider cutting some shapes on one side for swage block use. I'm glad you went and tried a common blacksmith method---go to the scrap yard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Becker Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: you might even consider cutting some shapes on one side for swage block use. Great idea! However I think I'll wait till I have a specific swage shape that I need to have. I think I'll try vertical and see how it feels. And thanks for putting up with my ignorance and helping me learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Keep reading and researching here. As you do and take that knowledge to the anvil you will become better faster. Ignorance is not stupidity unless you Try to remain ignorant. You upgraded from a piece of plate to an anvil. You are on your way up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Olson Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Das. Your words of wisdom are like poetry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Kevin, my words of wisdom are just recycled from what I've learned lol. But they are true words. Facts. Taking what you've read and puting it to anvil and hammer learns you the best. Then re-read, ask questions, or try again. I'll try some things just to see if it works. Generally if it is on here, it works. I've forged on a stone, ( granite) a sledge hammer head, and other anvils. It works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Modifying it to deal with your needs rather than a guess at what might be needed is the best way to go in my opinion. Of course I find that when I pick up an odd tool as part of a bundle or too cheap to pass up; it does tend to find a use *sometime* at the smithy. (I had a very odd hammer that sat on my hammer rack for over a decade until it suddenly became EXACTLY what I needed to set some rivets in the top of a spangenhelm...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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