NelsonR Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Hello everybody! Ever since I started forging about 7 or so years ago I've only had very minimal contact with gas forges. Except for the occasional trip out to my friends workshop about an hour or so from where I live I've done all my work on my trusty coal forge and have always been very pleased with the results it has given me. Recently though, I have had a growing interest in building a gas forge, mainly driven by the cold temps this winter and a desire to be able to work inside. The build I chose was far from optimal, and I mainly chose it based on material available to me. The forge itself is build with k23 kiln brick that was left a tenant that we used to share our work space with. The burner build is very basic, and although we had trouble getting it to burn well at first I was able to Jerry-rig a setup that gave us a good flame. I'm guessing our main problem was that the only gas regulator I had on hand was pretty low pressure; only around 11 PSI according to the pressure gauge I had. I still have yet to weld up a frame to hold the bricks together and hopefully make it more mobile, but so far I'm pretty pleased with the results. Like I said, I have almost no prior experience in gas builds, so If anyone has suggestions as to what should be improved I would definitely welcome them. I also was wondering about the health concerns associated with firebrick and whether it needs to be coated to prevent dust being put off while in use similar to ceramic wool. These bricks were straight out of the box that they had been stored in, and had quite a bit of dust coating them. I haven't read anywhere that this needs to be done, but just wanted to double check as I have no desire to get silicosis any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I am more concerned with the CO possibilities; especially as you have a vertical burner and the chance of rerunning exhaust is increased by that configuration. Do you have massive ventilation and/or *good* CO detectors? (Especially when you mention the cold as the tendency is to close up the shop and enjoy the warmth!) One of the great advantages of a coal forge is that you KNOW you shouldn't be breathing the smoke it puts off. Gas forges are "silent killers". I generally use a propane forge but with a lot of ventilation, winter and summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Thomas, didn't you notice the highly sophisticated exhaust re-run prevention system he has installed over the forge? Seriously though, Nelson, TP's suggestions are well advised. It appears that the area directly under your burner gets good and hot. You have a wide open exhaust opening though. If you can block part of the front off you may be able to retain a bit more heat, which could translate to less fuel burned and lower CO production as well. Definitely get that frame built as soon as you reasonably can. Those bricks have a tendency to crack or crumble in a relatively short period of time so you want something holding them in place. It will also give you a spot to fasten some supports for your burner so you can lose the string from the ceiling. You have quite a bit of hardware on the input end of your burner, and if you happened to catch the hose on something that will put a lot of leverage on your fittings. With some burners that can cause alignment issues at the least, but obviously a broken pipe spewing propane is not something you want to deal with. Frosty generally recommends using copper tubing going into the burner since it is something that can handle the heat and will also give without breaking if snagged by something. I don't know about the risks of silicosis from the brick dust, but I'd recommend shaking/blowing the loose dust off the bricks (which I'm sure you did). I've never coated those bricks with anything, but it never really occurred to me that there could be an issue in use. Hopefully someone else here knows if that's an issue worth worrying about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NelsonR Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 Yeah that was a concern I had as well, fortunately the warehouse that we are in has pretty decent ventilation, it's about 6000 square feet and riddled with holes and missing windows so I'm not too worried about that, however just to be sure I bought a couple carbon monoxide detectors that will be installing later this week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I see a couple issues I'd change. The first is the 1/4 turn ball valve, those are safety devices first proper propane valves secondly. You want a quick way to shut off the gas flow if something bad happens and there's burning propane spewing from a broken hose or fitting. Putting it on the burner where it's most likely to break isn't optimum. Put it on the regulator's output side so you'll be as far away from an out of control fire as possible and still shut it off fast. Yes? A copper tubing final supply line is my preference but you could put a 90* directly off the burner so the pipe nipple is aimed downwards and past the forge then connect the hose directly to the long nipple. Rotating the burner 90* on the forge will allow you to angle is enough to pass the forge body. The long nipple will still have a large moment of leverage but it'd be easy to clamp it to the angle iron frame you're going to build. Make sense? It REALLY needs that big opening closed up some. Check out Mikey's baffle discussion on Forges 101. You MUST balance closing off the opening with allowing enough exhaust porting or the burner won't function well if at all. The dust from insulating fire brick isn't a short term hazard, its not made with sharp silicate sand. However we don't want to breath more junk than we have to so cleaning them off out of the box is a good idea. What Deb and I call, "Can't hurt might help." No, don't blow them off with an air hose you want to avoid dust in the air right? Rinse them off or wipe them down with a damp rag. You'll need to let them dry and do one low fire burn to drive off the moisture that's soaked into the brick. That's not to red heat turn it off before it gets quite that hot. Anything above 230 f. will drive off hygroscopic moisture, that's water that's bonded molecularly as opposed to filling spaces between particles. What are the particulars of the burner. The flame looks pretty good to me but you might be able to get better performance with a little tweaking. Is the hair dryer there to get it to draw enough air? If so it needs tweaked. By particulars I mean: Bell reducer size, mixing tube dia. and length. Jet diameter, Flare? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NelsonR Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 Thanks for the pointers! Didn't really think that through on the ball valve so I'll get that moved. As for the opening I've just been placing an extra firebrick in front and it's been working decently well, these were taken while I was tweaking some things and trying to get a good look at the flame so I had the brick moved to the side. Burner specs are 1"x8" for the burner pipe with a .45 mig tip for the gas nozzle. It burned fine when I had it horizontal, but as soon as I moved it into a vertical configuration it started to burn poorly as the gas flow seemed to be flowing back up the pit. I've ordered a high pressure regulator that I hope will help solve that problem, but for now I have the hair dryer to help mitigate the low pressure. Bell reducer diameter is only 1x1 1/2, I was thinking I might want a little bigger, but as I build all this just with stuff we had laying around the shop I was rather limited. I'll definitely have to make some tweaks as I go, for one I need to find a proper fitting so I can replace to monstrous series of pipes and fittings I currently have to adapt the gas hose to the burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 5 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: I am more concerned with the CO possibilities; especially as you have a vertical burner and the chance of rerunning exhaust is increased by that configuration. I was going to suggest that he add a baffle wall just in front of his exhaust opening, but in such a short forge, I have to agree with your concern about drawing exhaust fumes into the burner. However, looking at its construction, it seems obvious that this forge could be turned on its side, solving bother of our concerns. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NelsonR Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 Yeah I definitely think I could just run it horizontal, however I would like to just restate that this is a very well ventilated shop, and the two windows behind where the forge sits now (the ones covered by the metal flashing) open to the outside, as well as the fact that this will most likely be run in the doorway of the shop (just out of frame) anyway. for the purposed of these shots I ran it in the easiest place I could set it up for just a few minutes to see if I could get everything working properly. Having had a family member who died of CO poisoning I don't take it lightly, rest assured I have taken proper ventilation into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 In a forge that short, the chance of producing carbon monoxide from exhaust fumes is real, but more immediately, if you use a baffle wall, is the chance that burner exhaust will choke the burner off completely. Anyone can demonstrate this fact by removing a burner (which has a flame retention nozzle) from the forge, and running it in the horizontal position in the open air. Slowly rotate the burner into the vertical-down position and watch the flame; before the burner ever reaches the vertical position exhaust fumes interring its air entrances will snuff the burner's flame. The only thing preventing the same thing from occurring in a forge is the horizontal distance between the burner and the exhaust opening. If you want to raise your forges heat, you need a baffle wall; to use one successfully on that forge, you will probably have to turn the forge on its side. Sorry, but that's probably the way this will shake out. BTW, I totally don't want to discourage you. I LIKE THAT FORGE A LOT! It seems to me that it has big potential, and I for one want to know what you used for firebrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I would be concerned with the k23 bricks. All of them I have used, which were dealt forge thermal cycles have turned into rubble in short time. So far the k26 bricks are holding up much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NelsonR Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 Oh yeah, I should have mentioned that the bottom bricks are k-26, I didn't want to make the whole thing out of those as they act as a hard refractory and take a long time to heat up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I used k23 bricks as my baffle walls and within a few months, they turned into pieces. Not because of dropping or anything. The back brick was never moved and crumbled in place. I use the 2 inches of kaowool, 1/4 - 1/2 inch of kast o lite, and metrikote in my forges. More insulative, less mass, tougher then the bricks. You might armor the bricks with a refractory or kiln wash. Maybe that would prevent what I dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NelsonR Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 Yeah that's a pretty similar build to what I want to make eventually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 If you were to use the larger disposable helium tank or a 20lb propane tank, it would be comparable in forge size as your current brick forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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