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Peppie

Pressing Forward........Thoughts???

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24 ton.  12" X 10" X 1/2" web 53lbs per foot. There is 8" of webbing remaining on the bottom. 13" remaining on the top. Cut a 6 1/4" X  37" rectangle cut out for the ram and anvil. The cylinder is 5" bore, with an 8" stroke. Motor and pump will be sized for a 24 ton press.

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I am having two thoughts about connecting the ram to the push plate, and guides.

The first picuture up has the wrong dimensions. But the design is the question, compared to the second design picture.

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My concern with the first drawing is that the ram push plate will want to rotate on the pin and cause the face plate ram guide to bind up on the webbing.

My concern for the second drawing is the 4, 5/16" bolts on each side of the guide block tapped into the rams ear plate. Will they hold?? The force will be on the top of that ear plate, and not on the guide plates....I think???

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Any reason that I can not use a DP enclosure  rated motor for my press? The motor  will be outdoors, but sitting in a vented enclosure. 

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Hi,

If it were myself I would gusset the web to the sides front and back, top and bottom in order to reduce any chance of twist.

Should make for a clean looking press!

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Jspool..... that is the plan. I will use 5/8" plate for the gussets.

I am having  the guide plate machined this week,and a number of the gussets,and anvil plates cut this weekend.

More pics, and info soon to come.

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Good Morning,

When you have it working, the creaking and groaning of the frame trying to expand is going to teach you why you need a more substantial frame. Your I-beam in the pictures above show different size flanges. This will cause your i-beam to turn into a Banana.

What you don't realize, 24 Ton = 48,000 psi (Pounds per Square Inch). If your press contact is 3 sq/in, that means 16,000 lbs/sq in. at the contact.  If your press contact is a triangle or similar contact point, your pressure at the contact point of less than 1 sq/in, increases pressure per square inch. 1/2 square inch will be upwards to 96,000 psi. at the contact point. Maybe more.

Hydraulics is Mathematics.

Do you really want to take the risk of an explosion that close to your body!!!

Neil

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Swedefiddle. The flanges in the picture above are the same size. It is an optical illusion, or a photo illusion  if you will. Both are 5/8" X 10".

Thanks for the input.

Peppie

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Moving forward on this project. Starting  to tac some pieces in place. I am not a welder,nor do I have a large enough  welder to pull this off. So this press will be hauled to my buddies home for the correct welding it needs.

I want to be sure all the pieces  fit properly before it gets to the welder.

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Progress  report.  Beefed up the lower end. Added a slab of 1/2" plate to both sides of the lower wed. The pieces  labeled  a,b,c,e are 1" x 2 1/2" supports. 

Hope to pick up the top ram guide from the machine  shop tomorrow. 

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Worked on the top end today.

The larger cut out at the top is cut wider, to be able to get the ram guide down  into the narrower web area. The ram guide will be machined to fit on the top of the ram and over lap the webbing.

First pic is the angle to hold my dies. 

2nd die plate

3rd top anvil plate

4th filler plate.

5th  5/8" support  plate, also encloses  the filler plate.

6th 5/8" support blocks giving the anvil plate full support to press top plate

7th thickness of support  channel 

8th channel  in place.

If any of you see something  drastically wrong with this set up, please speak up before  it goes to the welder.

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Got my guide plate.

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I have  1/16" play from left to right on this guide plate. Is that too much?

The guide block ears will be drilled and tapped for 3/8" bolts to allow adjustments to the brass bar as it wears.

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I have 10+" from die plate to die plate on an 8" stroke cylinder.  I plan to keep my dies height at approx 1" top and bottom. I will also make up a top die spacer to reduce the throw height of the ram for normal use. I understand that the ram shouldn't  be used at full extension. 

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Quick front  view 

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I got a 8'' work opening on mine with the dies in its more than enough also i have about 1/16'' play in the the travel its fine i like that guide plate ya got looks good.

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TY Bubba

I didn't think a1/16" would be an issue.

What do ya know about balancing the control unit, to work with a foot pedal? Batson mentioned  that in his book, but didn't explain why, or how.

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Trial an error lol i never hooked one up yet I think a couple of springs would take care of that in the controll rods.Thats how im goin to do it i've seen a few set ups done that way.

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I have been looking at different designs as well. I will cross that bridge at a later date.

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I know there has to be a few experienced press operator/builders that have been watching this thread. Looking for some input please.

In the above photos you can see my ram guide block.  It is machined to inset around the top ram pin mount. I had this shape as such to keep the ram plate from tilting from side to side.  Didn't want the guide to get jammed between the webbing.

Question is...will I be able to use dies that are approx 2" off center? Such as a fuller die mounted beside a flat die?

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I rum combo dies on mine and they run from the center out where i use them is a off center hope this makes sense but they work fine

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Combo “T” dies are great.  Your presses ability to run off center work will depend upon the play and engineering of your guides.  If your upper die cants, your billet will banana as it is drawn out

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2 hours ago, Jspool said:

Combo “T” dies are great.  Your presses ability to run off center work will depend upon the play and engineering of your guides.  If your upper die cants, your billet will banana as it is drawn out

If thats for me it does banana a bit but a pass or 2 thru the flat die  squares it up pretty quick i don't think a little play will hurt anything.IN my opinion when tolerances are too tight thats when things start happening like binding , welds deforming or worse..

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3 hours ago, Jspool said:

Combo “T” dies are great.  Your presses ability to run off center work will depend upon the play and engineering of your guides.  If your upper die cants, your billet will banana as it is drawn out

Jspool. After looking at the above pictures... do you think the engineering is sound enough to press material off center?

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From the picture with no dimensions, I would ascerain that the front/back rigidity appears very good.  However, withould knowing the gap on either side to the frame I couldn’t make a guess.  The relatively narrow platen is in hour favor.  I suggest running the press and blow the relief valve pressing something sitting on one side of the press table.  Observe how much cant is created and might be adjusted out.  If the amount is satisfactory, move forward, if not stick to working in the center, or deal with working with wonky billets like I have!

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The gap between  the guide and the webbing  is 1/16" overall.

The guide block will have a 6" x6" x 1" platform welded to the top of it, as shown in the above picture. 

Thanks for the feedback. 

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I finally done the math on mine i'm just over 24 ton and its crushed everything i put thru in the last 8 months so with yours hittin the same tonnage it should be fast and strong which is what you want.One problem i had at first was cant like Jspool was talkin  about i just welded in more reinforcement problem solved i think you should be fine you've got lots of reinforcement but its somthing to check right away and get corrected once you start squeezing.It can cause uneven wear quick in the movin parts.And one other thing you'll find out quick is if your freinds a good welder or not with 24 ton...Thought i'd finish with a little welder humor your welder bud should get a laugh out of it...

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The guy doing my welding has done it professionally as a union iron worker  for the past 30 years. I have all the confidence  in the world  that the welding on this project will be the least of my worries .

I really believe  there will be " No " on my guide block.

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Mail call. This will set on a mobile cart, above the 5hp motor and 11gpm 2 stage pump

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