Matthew2 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 I have been watching prices go up for a while. Seems really high to me. Maybe in the wrong spot but it does say anvil in the ad. Copied directly from the local online classifieds with contact information stripped: "Railroad Track Anvil $220.00 Description New bladesmith blacksmith anvil. Very nice! Just in time for Xmas! Extremely tough and hard 2" precision machined striking surface. 43lbs. 6" wide x 7" height x 12" long. Four drilled mounting holes are 3/8" dia. Edge radius is 1/8" and 1/2". Clear coat finish to preserve the natural patina and prevent rust. Very nice ring to it, will sing to you as you work! Text preferred." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatLiner Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 I laughed when I saw that add on KSL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Someone’s obviously trying to capitalize on the surge in bladesmithing’s popularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevomiller Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 It is nutty, but at least they are machining the top flat and radiusing the two edges to two different radii. BUT, it’s still RR track with limited mass under the working surface. A 66lb, 30kg, Hardened steel Italian/French sorta patterned anvil can be had off of the auction site shipped for $140. Has a round and trapezoid horns, pritchel and hardy holes, and more mass under the sweet spot. If you don’t need a bigger anvil and won’t/can’t wait to find a used one near you it’s a better deal than that nonsense above. As I said, they spent time cleaning up, and you are paying for it. But since it doesn’t have a horn or hardy go buy a big block of steel and be miles ahead for way less $$$. Or, spend that full amount and get a ginormous steal block that’s been flame or plasma cut to your specs. Two cents from the guy rumored to have absolutely no sense, advice from me is perhaps worth what you have paid for it ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 3 hours ago, stevomiller said: at least they are machining the top flat And this is good how? If a person actually NEEDS a flat face, rail has the flange and web. Machining the contact surface off rail is removing the ONLY hardened steel in it. Just imagine how much they'd want if they'd ground a HSF (Horn Shaped Feature) on it. This is a fine example of Dunning and Kruger make an anvil. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 3 hours ago, JHCC said: Someone’s obviously trying to capitalize As attributed to P.T. Barnum who said "There's a sucker born every minute". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevomiller Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Frosty said: And this is good how? If a person actually NEEDS a flat face, rail has the flange and web. Machining the contact surface off rail is removing the ONLY hardened steel in it. Just imagine how much they'd want if they'd ground a HSF (Horn Shaped Feature) on it. This is a fine example of Dunning and Kruger make an anvil. Frosty The Lucky. Didn’t say it was a good, or bad thing: that would depend on its intended use and the end users perspective. I’m really not quite getting why your response was so, mmm, emphatic and carried the tone that perhaps I was daft. I’m pretty sure my post clearly tried to guide the OP away from spending money on this thing: it’s nutty, spend less and buy a block of steel, buy one of the smaller STEEL Chinese anvils, or use your cash to buy really BIG block and have it modded to their needs. Do we ALL not try and sway noobies from RR track if there is ANY chance for them to get something else (except some cast iron ASO)? Especially if mounted horizontally due to lack of mass and rigidity? Using the bottom flange or web makes it even less efficient, and if the object worked wide or odd shaped using the web isn’t an option. My comment clearly states that they had put some time into this thing, so that ridiculous price wasn’t just for a beat up piece of rail, it was dressed, and some of that dumb price is for that work. If one did white work, or smaller smithing projects they wanted to forge to shape and do less stock removal to true items up, a flat unscarred surface is, even unhardened, is better better than the scarred, crowned, work hardened original face. Im hoping this clearly states my thoughts and opinions. Sorry my opinions convey I’m an Dunning and Kruger salesman. Be blessed, hope your sinus headache clears quickly. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyBiker Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Guess I’m on the other side then because I steer people interested in Blacksmithing towards RR track anvils as a starter. As they’re inexpensive and will do until a person decides whether they have caught the bug or if it’s a passing fad for them. If it turns out that they realize it’s not as easy as it looks on TV and give up, at least they’ve not sunk a ton of cash into it. The one I shaped for myself worked for me until I found exactly what I wanted / needed. That said, the price asked in the ad is absurd. I wouldn’t expect more than $125 - 150 for mine with the stand (minus tools & holder). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevomiller Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Grumpy Biker, if someone could buy a piece of raw rail for say no more than $1 a lb, or pay the price you quoted for yours fully shaped, I’d probably say “sure”. Especially if they’d been looking for a reasonable priced used commercial anvil with no success. Again, it’s the crazy price folks want for rail, and what many unsuspecting noobies end up forking over for it. Best, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Steve: When you say, "It is nutty, but at least they are machining the top flat and radiusing the two edges to two different radii. " You're implying it's some kind of improvement on a plain piece of RR rail. It isn't, it in fact degrades the utility on a couple fronts. And yes, I know of which I speak. I've not only made a number of rail anvils, I've tried all kinds of mistakes trying to bring rail closer to a "real" anvil. I have also spoken with the guys at the main RR shop on Ship Creek in Anchorage about what rail is, how it's made, what it's made of, how it's heat treated and the whys of it all. I got an invite after asking a line crew a bunch of questions. A large RR shop is an awesome place if you ever get a chance for a tour I highly recommend it. What I "know" about American made RR rail is dated only applies to American rail. If someone has more current info I'd appreciate seeing it. Grinding the the cap flat is a bad thing, it removes the only hardened steel there is. The contact surface is induction hardened maybe 10-12 thousandths deep to reduce friction and wear. Worse, it reduces the depth of it's structural shape (the I beam shape) making it more flexible so it absorbs more energy from hammer blows rather than returning it. Lastly it reduces the weight though it's an insignificant degradation compared to the others. And NO, I do NOT try to sway people away from rail anvils, I still have my last one and a vertically mounted piece of rail I can show the new guys just how effective it is. I try to share my mistakes so the new folk don't spend a lot of tie and worse money on a rail anvil that's been degraded just so it LOOKS like a London pattern anvil. What Chinese cast STEEL anvils? Where have you seen one that really IS steel? Just because a foundry has steel in the mold doesn't mean they're using anything but poor quality cast iron. That's been discussed here more than once as well. A piece of rail, almost ANY piece of rail is superior. Lastly I did not direct anything at you Steve, we all make mistakes and pass incorrect information. If you've paid attention you'll know how often folks correct me and I don't take it like it's some kind of personal attack. Try anyway, I sometimes get too emotionally invested and say things I have to apologize for later. Grumpy: NONE of this has anything to do with your anvil, I said all I needed to when you were still looking at it. It's what you have, use it and when something superior comes along, keep this one it's perfect for a bench anvil and it's just too easy to make up something to do heavy work on. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevomiller Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Frosty, firstly, sorry for wrongly putting you in the “group not recommending rail anvils”. However, what folks want to do with something will dictate form. We can both have differing opinions on wht is ideal for what work will be done. I respect your opinion, based on your needs, experience and desires, it appears the inverse is not true. However, we both agree on mounting rail vertically to get the most efficiency from rail: in this orientation both of our opinions on the top caps surface condition are moot. If a person needs or wants a true flat working surface and cleaner edges, and what they have is rail to start with, then I say mill away. Doing bladesmithing and tool making is one time an anvils edges and a true top can be very useful for the work at hand. Two separate radii for edges as well can be useful. I don’t believe I’m passing on poor information. You’re quite right that most Chinese anvils aren’t going to have great quality control. However I did post one up in “show me your anvil”, Jeremy did as well, and two other smiths have henceforth purchased them. They are a two horn Italian/French type pattern. I might not be the smartest gent, but what I have is steel, it is not cast iron. It has a nice horn, a 3/4” hardy hole, and a pritchel hole. A one inch 52100 bearing dropped from 16” rebound OVER 90%. It is only 66lbs, but I’ll take it EVERY day over a piece of horizontal mounted rail. I posted pics and would gladly share the EBay link if our site allowed such things. If you wish I will PM you a link. Again asking me where I’ve seen one as if I’m either ignorant or down right deceitful sets a a particular tone to our conversation and perhaps what your opinions of me are. Lastly, your question about speaking directly to me, well, you quoting me directly and questioning how I thought something could be good was my clue. I’m not sure how else to take that. Honestly, I’m not much into this part of online conversations. Id really rather just share a beer and meal with you, and then some time at the forge. I’m pretty sure we’d have much greater alignment of thoughts and interests than this dialogue would seem to show. Best Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Note: online is often the most expensive place to buy smithing stuff. So not a good comparison point. (Sort of the "rings are too expensive I spent all day looking at the ones in Tiffany's...") I see a lot of such ads that I consider "trolling for dollars". Recently I saw one where they wanted US$6 a pound for the same brand, size and condition anvil; I paid $20 for and sold on for $50---$1 a pound, what I thought was a decent price for a Vulcan in only fair condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLDSMTH Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Cougar anvils that are marketed in Australia are also cast steel Chinese anvils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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