Anvil size

[Iulian]

Hi,

Often I get this request; “I want a small anvil, it’s for my son. He is young” . 

Does anyone knows? Is it easier to work on small anvils? Do one have to hammer less if the anvil is bigger? 

 

 

[Daswulf]

Depends on what they will forge on it. I have forged 3lb hammer heads on my 127lb anvil. Handles small stuff easy enough plus I can move it easily if I want to. While I would like to have between a 200-300lb anvil as my main shop anvil, there isn't anything I have tried to do yet on my 127lber that I couldn't. Also picked up a 100lb for a demo anvil. 

The bigger the anvil the larger work and using hammer size it can accommodate, but you Can do smaller work on them as well. So I guess it all depends if you need/ want a larger or smaller anvil. 

I do recall hearing something about efficiency of anvil weight vs. Hammer weight used on it but I can't remember what that was. 

[ThomasPowers]

Sort of depends on what they mean as small: a small 100# anvil should get them well on their way smithing.  A small 33# anvil will be outgrown *fast* if they continue in the craft. (I recently sent an ACW pack anvil stand to DE and as I was standing in the line to ship it I had it tucked under my arm as it was "light" ; the shipping clerk kept talking about how heavy it was....)

I have noticed a difference in working on my 91# anvil and a 165# anvil and on my 468# anvil. Larger is less work.  I see no reason to suggest a "small" anvil for a youngster; (save saving money in case they decide they don't like the craft.---but a useful sized anvil should be easy to sell on!)  A reasonably sized anvil will stand them in good stead if they do go forward with the craft as it can then become their travel anvil; like my 91# anvil is nowadays.

[Marc1]

It makes sense to have a smaller anvil for a smaller person. 

A kid wouldn't be able to swing a 4 pounder and will probably use hammers well under 2 Lbs and for that a smaller anvil is adequate and cheaper.

There is nothing stopping a kid from using a 500 Lb anvil, however it would be intimidating and wasteful, not to mention the need for a lower stand. A small anvil used with a small hammer can stand on a low bench, table, on the ground or anywhere else the kid can work, and packed away later. 

When my 5 yo grandson wants to hammer on something I give him a small round peen hammer and a 20 Lbs anvil and he is plenty happy with that. 

Kids identify with smaller versions of adult tools as their tools very easily. I have smaller tools for them and that is their choice every time. 

As for the question  ...does one have to hammer less on a big anvil ... the short answer is yes ... and no. Yes if you are using a larger hammer on a larger job, and no if you are using a small hammer on a small job

[Iulian]

He he... I’ve never heard of “travel anvil “ before. 

I had the same feeling about weight. 

[MC Hammer]

I think efficiency comes into play as well.  A small anvil, even if it is well secured to a base, will move around with every strike of the hammer.  For a child you are not going to have a premium anvil stand set-up so it's likely a small anvil will be secured to a smallish stump set to the lower level which I believe will move around as the youngster strikes it.  This loses some of the efficiency of moving the metal.  My first anvil was a 75 # little thing and it moved around a lot.  When I got my 179 # Trenton I noticed a huge difference.  Sure, the 75 pound anvil was likely not quality hardened steel and may have even been an ASO, but not having the anvil move helped as well.

I think If I had a youngster in the forge I'd just cut a large diameter stump or make a solid board platform that raised him or her up to the proper level to use a bigger anvil.  One day the youngster will not need the thing to stand on and will be ready to continue on using big tools.  There's a saying in the military :  Train like you fight.  I think this applies to this situation as well.  Think about the old smithies back in the 18th and 19th century and much older.  Boys helped in the smithy and got accustomed to using the grown-up tools.  It's doubtful those old blacksmiths had little anvils for their little helpers.  I'm guessing they found ways to raise the helper to the right level of the anvil or had the young apprentice step up to the lower striking anvil set up for heavy sledge work.  Either way, I think they purposely wanted the boy to grow into the man tools instead of giving the boy boy tools and expecting him to outgrow the smaller tools.  That's my 2 cent guess.

[Glenn]

Let us separate the children from the young adults. A child is not physically able to handle the size and weight of adult tools. They have the desire, and the drive sure enough, but are limited physically. So we compensate by making tools to fit their size.

A young adult (starting at about teenage years, maybe a bit before) has advanced physically and mentally and can understand the dangers involved, and can use adult tools. Early teen farm kids can not physically do a days work along side an adult so they are the ones that drive the equipment, heavy equipment, combines, etc years before the state will even consider them for issuing a drivers license. They CAN physically handle the job, and are mentally responsible.  As they grow older they have the experience and desire to step up and work beside the men.

Today people try to protect everyone from everything. They use every excuse available and even invent new ones to protect little ones. IF the individual has the desire, then teach the individual what they need to know, what they must know, and how to be safe. Let them test the water, under the CLOSE supervision of an adult. By close supervision, I mean a dedicated adult whose sole purpose is to watch over the individual and keep them safe, and whose secondary responsibility is to teach and guide them through the activity.

Certainly this is not for everyone. There are some individuals that are unsafe to themselves and others. Move on. There are some that have never had a person that allows them to try, or explained things so they understand. Be that person. Always look for the individual that has both the fire in their belly and their head screwed on straight so you can reach down and pull them up to the next level. Teach them as much as they are capable of learning. Watch them grow and then rejoice when they reach down and start helping others.

Think of it as planting seeds. You always plant extra, some for the birds, some because they do not germinate. You water and nourish all that come up and have potential, in hopes of harvesting the fruits of your labor. You then save the best seeds for the following year to plant and start another crop.  We are planting the seeds of blacksmithing.

[MC Hammer]

Perhaps a staged photo like man of the old ones were, but this is the size child I was thinking of in this thread.  He looks like he's using adult tongs, but they might be hard for him to use with one hand so they may just need the handles to be heated and brought closer together.  The anvil in front of him would be too high for him to use, but he could step up on something and use it.  I'm guessing a lot of old blacksmith shops had boys his age helping out like this and making nails, etc.

[Marc1]

I agree with Glenn ... the original post was a bit scant of detail. The OP wants to understand the requests from his customers. "I want a small anvil for my son" 

The short answer is, have plenty of small anvils for your customers who want small anvils for their sons. 

As for young people in the workshop, it all depends upon their size. Over 40 kilos, is an adult, under 20 kilos a child that will not do any work, only play. imbetween ...  depends of age.

[jlpservicesinc]

Well, I am a firm believer that if the kid shows merit and desire it might be well worth getting them a German style (double horn) new MFG anvil.. 

150-165..   Good work can and is produced on all sorts of sized anvils and while a little person might find the size of the anvil a problem vs a 100lbs anvil Kids grow really fast.. 

A child of 10 or 11 in 5 years will be driving a car and if they have equipment that they are skilled on it will just make it that much easier.. 

I started on a 15lbs anvil and it was not good.. It worked but it wasn't till I got my first 150lbs anvil that my work started to improve..  

I recently had an 11 year old boy, come by for a lesson on making nails.. He rocked the whole scene..  Not only could he swing a 1.5lb hammer but he had a good stance, a good swing and decent accuracy..   It was a joy and pleasure.. 

It seems that kids today if they have a desire can be good workers..   I also met another youngster that wasn't ready..