what press should i get

[jeremy k]

It's kind like using a hydraulic press to make this 7 ft tall anchor I made years ago, you can fool the machine to do things it didn't know it could do. As in the picture....making swelled hot punching openings in 3-1/2" pipe. And texturing pipe to look like texture on solid stock, and curving pipe.......all done on a 24 ton hydraulic press.

[Sanderson Iron]

Is it okay to take Michael's post and hijack it to a general discussion like this?  I feel like we should focus on the guy's question; but maybe by reading what we have to say, he'll get something out of this.  I hope?

10 minutes ago, jeremy k said:

Thomas,  I really don't think that was Joel's intent, as saying it will do what a power hammer will do , more in that it can be used for forging in general.

Not sure who's right and who's wrong here anymore.  Ha ha!  But I am going to make the following statement and then clarify it:

A punch press can do anything a power hammer can do--anything.  --Joel Sanderson, April 23, 2018  

Some operations that are difficult with a hammer are a breeze with a press, and some operations that are a breeze with a hammer are difficult with a press.  The two machines compliment each other very well that way.  Have you punched many holes with your hammer?  (punched--not drifted) That's a lot easier with a press.  Slot punching round bars?  Piece of cake with a press--centered.  Heading?  Riveting? Easier and more consistant with a press.  Starting a tendon?  One tool no matter the stock size.  The list goes on and on.  A hammer can do about anything, right?  but not everything is best done with it.  Same with a press.  Forging tapers with a press require more complicated tooling than with a hammer, but it can be done.   Swaging is not ideal with a press either, since it's slow and has more die time.  So... Either can do what the other does, but neither is always the best machine for the job.

Does this make sense?  

1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said:

If you can show me a video of you taking a 3" piece of stock and reducing it to paper thin in one go on your press---with no adjustment of the press then I will rethink my beliefs.

I'm not sure why you'd insist on not adjusting the press.  You wouldn't even want to do that with a 50 pound Little Giant--and maybe not a 100 pounder, though I've never run one.  A press is a different machine.  Don't treat it like a hammer, or you'll be very disappointed.  

[jeremy k]

Joel - I agree with you as long as there is adjustments on the punch press - as you said no machine is a fix all - but like I said they can be used in ways that can accomplish things one wouldn't think of as their normal use. As in the above picture - the "punched/drifted holes" on 3-1/2" pipe - was done with my hydraulic press.....how - not punched/drifted - but Pulled. Opposite of normal thinking of a press.

[Anachronist58]

5 hours ago, Sanderson Iron said:

Is it okay to take Michael's post and hijack it to a general discussion like this?

To all concerned, and to respond directly to you, Mr. Sanderson: 

Yes it is OK to air this discussion as it has thus far progressed, as long as we keep in mind that the Original Poster, as well as the entire planet, hope to glean a clear understanding of all of the implications of taking on Press Work.

Some of us are not qualified to handle a butter knife. This establishes a baseline. I was trained to safely operate an oxy-fuel torch at the age of 11, and satisfactorily proved my qualification, through training and evaluation, to do so.

So, back to the question of taking on Press Work:  It is an inherently dangerous pursuit, as is operating an automobile,  both require a level of training appropriate to their levels of risk.  I venture to say that many more people can be trained to safely operate a motor vehicle (try not to laugh, please), than can be trained to safely operate a press.

Mr. Sanderson, based upon my reading and re-reading of this entire thread, I intend to purchase a second-hand OBI press for the purpose of doing some unconventional hot work.  I would not recommend this for the casual hobbyist, or for those with limited industrial experience. It matters not that I have never operated such a device - my years of industrial experience and risk-assessment training qualify me to carefully implement the use of such a device.

Those of us who have operated table saws, know that it is not for everyone. Nor is the toggling of tons of force at high velocity, for everyone.

I see, Mr. Sanderson, that you have been challenged to write a piece on OBI Forging Techniques.  I too would enjoy reading that, but I believe that you have a full-time business to run? Might be a challenge to execute.

If I have overstepped my decorum, I am always open to admonishment. Respectfully,

Robert Taylor

 

[JHCC]

9 hours ago, Sanderson Iron said:

Is it okay to take Michael's post and hijack it to a general discussion like this?

This is IFI, where no thread is safe from hijacking. No harm in coming back to the original subject, though.

[Sanderson Iron]

3 hours ago, Anachronist58 said:

It is an inherently dangerous pursuit, as is operating an automobile,  both require a level of training appropriate to their levels of risk.  I venture to say that many more people can be trained to safely operate a motor vehicle (try not to laugh, please), than can be trained to safely operate a press.

Ha ha!  Yes!  I guess I'm the other way around. I drive a horse to work daily, and my wife doesn't like it when I drive a car because I forget that without a horse I have to look where I'm going!  That can be a problem.  

When you get your press, make certain you know its rated speed.  Don't trust the pulley/motor that comes with it to figure that out.   Then run it slower at first until you get used to it.  If you mess up then, it'll be no big deal.  I ran mine at 60 RPM for awhile, then sped it up to 100 later.  Look for one with a hole-thru table.  Mine is solid, and it's a handicap; a hole lets you do more, and not just punch.  That hole can be used for a drop-in sub press or shoe, and those often have built in springs for cushion and extended die contact (memory issue). Don't think in black and white and absolutes, and you'll be a lot more successful with it.  A press can do about anything.  

9 hours ago, jeremy k said:

Joel - I agree with you as long as there is adjustments on the punch press - as you said no machine is a fix all - but like I said they can be used in ways that can accomplish things one wouldn't think of as their normal use.

Yes, but you see, hot iron is their normal use, just not their common use.  These things go back nearly to the beginning of industry and are seen in old photographs alongside hammers.  This is not my idea, you know.  

By the way, that anchor's a really nice bit of drifting.  

[ThomasPowers]

I like to use my screwpress for both punching and drifting, #2 hoskins, I would love to collect all the blacksmith toys and have a friend who is way closer to that than anyone should be...mechanical hammer(s), air hammer, rolling mill, 100 ton hydraulic press; I suffer dehydration through drooling every time I visit him...

Like many craftspeople; blacksmiths can find ways to "stretch" a tool's capabilities if they don't have the appropriate one to use.  Some folks also have a "favorite tool" they tend to use.  (One smith out here had a broken anvil on his powerhammer and has made a rotating table with various die sets on it that can be pushed under the hammer head to do various tasks.  Used a car differential as the rotation mechanism IIRC.)