DavidF Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Thanks guys. I will move them up. I have a lot of room to bring them up. I will also get some air holes drilled. Once I make some tweaks, I will post back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, DavidF said: have a lot of room to bring them up This could be an part of the issue. If your burner is tp deep in the forge it will get unnecessary backpreasure as well as eventualy melting. Youre nozzle/flame retainer should be just barely inside the blanket 1/8" or so. In order to protect it and also to give your flame room before it impedes on the wall/floor. Also what are you using as a nozzle/flame retainer? as this may be a big part of your issue with backburn in to the mixing tube. And what size is your gas feed oriface and is it drilled or migtip? I should add. Please do not be discouraged by all these questions or being told you did x wrong and to do it this way. These are in no way intended to put you down or in any way "poke fun" my intention is soley to help you get your forge as close to "good" as i am capable. Believe me your forgelooks like the sisteen chapel compaired to the stick figure of my forst forge. You have done an exemplary job on the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Thanks Bines. Gas feed is Mig tip. It is .035. The nozzle is 1” to 3/4” reducer with threads drilled out. I also think my issue could be that the burner is not deep enough. In my case, it is probably not as deep as the burners are usually placed (based on your description). Thanks for the feedback. Btw, I appreciate you letting me know you aren’t poking fun. You won’t need to worry about that with me. I enjoy the banter. And I am new to this, so I am sure I will make mistakes and can learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 .35 is to big for a 3/4" burner. Go to at least a .30 given your oxygen issues id recomend dropping down to a .23 even Reducer with threads ground out should work lets work the placement and oxygen out first then well look at flame retention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 Cool. I will pick up some tips. I wondered if the .035” would work, but I needed them for my welder anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Be sure and get T tips. They give better air flow. Let me Know if I can help you. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Wayne, I am not familiar with T tips. Can your provide some more detail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 it is a tapered tip. Most any welding shop should have them or can get them in. One is designated as Tweeko T Tip.. Be careful that they are the tapered tip. Look at the pictures closely. I looked on both Google and Ebay and they both have standard tips mixed in the T listings. Let me know if I can help you. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 That is some good advice wayne. I never even considered the difference until you said something. I have some of the tapered tips for getting in to tighter places when welding. However for our purposes the gas being funneled down a V instead of slamming in to then back pressured and finally being shoved out of a U could allow for a significant gas flow increase. HMMMMM now I gotta go play and test things on my next day off.....thanks a lot wayne you got my brain started now i'm not gonna sleep for days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 I haven’t picked up new tips yet, but I did figure out one issue. I had a backdraft in the pipe that houses the burners. I took additional insulation blanket and stuffed them up. I have also had to “help” get the burner flame out the end by blowing forcefully down the opening. It takes off after that and burns pretty good. It is rich when it starts out, but goes to fairly neutral once it is warm and the burners are going. I am going to pick up some smaller, tapered tips and swap them out. But tonight I needed to anneal a blade and I can heat the forge and the entire 12” blade in about ten minutes. Really happy with how it works. And the IR radiator from Wayne is the best thing I could have added to this forge. I haven’t made any empirical measures, but I would bet the heat up time and time to heat a blade is about half of the time I saw prior to the Merikote layers. I may be “geeking” out a little, but I am really excited with this hobby. I am now creating a kitchen knife. It is my second blade, so I just did a flat grind from blade to spine. Even though it is only the second blade, my grinding is probably 400% better. I am going to keep it simple with just a blade and handle construction. No guard or pommel for the next few tries. I know I am preaching to the choir here, but I can’t wait to get off work from my day job so I can play in the shop. This has to be the most rewarding hobby in the world. After my night of work, I can hold up this work and see what I accomplished. I wish I could figure out a way to do this full time, because I am thinking about things all the time, dreaming about designs and uses, in bed watching forging on YouTube.... it goes on and on. I have the bug and I hope it doesn’t lose it’s luster for me in my lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dick Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I'm gathering my pile of parts to build a couple of 3/4" "Mikey Burners" and in the process of looking for the 316 SS flame nozzle I came across this part. described as "Stainless Steel 316 Pipe Fitting, Sanitary Weld Concentric Reducer, 38 x 32mm 1.5 x 1.25" Tube ODss Steel 316 Pipe Fitting, Sanitary Weld Concentric Reducer, 38 x 32mm 1.5 x 1.25" Tube OD " The flair looks really good and the dimensions are close, however if my calculations are correct the flare is close to the 1:12 ratio, the only question is going to be the bushing space. Any thoughts? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 Binesman, Frosty, and Mikey98118 are the authorities. Hopefully one of them can provide a recommendation based on the proper ratios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Why would you pay as much or more to use a stainless steel reducer, instead of ordering stainless steel pipe or tube and a spacer ring from schedule #40 pipe? If you don't want to follow my instructions exactly, then you would be much better off to make a linear style burner (etc. Riel); doing what you want works out much better with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dick Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Mikey Actually I am trying to follow the design details , In the flame nozzle section you describe flaring the exit to a 1:12 ration cone after the step from the spacer. While trying to locate a source for the 316 stainless pipe, I stumbled upon this part which looked close to what the final would be. As for price, I haven't been able so far to fine a source for the correct pipe that I wouldn't have to buy a lot mot than I really need and at a lot more $ than the $4 for these. however cost aside, if you think this component is not suitable then I'll continue to look for a reasonable source of the straight wall 316. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I"m not gainsaying Mike, I tend not to help folk who experiment with their own mods of proven designs before having experience. However if it's available and what you can afford give one a try and let us know how it works. I can't tell what the conic ratio is from the specs you list so I won't even guess at effectiveness. However I see guys using plumbing bell reducers successfully as burner outlet flares. Keep us in the loop please, new ideas often bear fruit. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 8 hours ago, Robert Dick said: I stumbled upon this part which looked close to what the final would be. I noticed it looks close too; it might be close enough to work; might be...Onlinemetals.com has the EXACT parts. If you try it your way and succeed, then great; I'm all for you; that will be wonderful for other new guys to know--and if you don't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 I don’t know if this feedback will be valuable, but after building my forge and working on tuning the burners, I would suggest the best path is to follow an exact build for a burner. I went with a design based on several different burners and what I could source from local stores. I went this route because I thought I would be close enough to make it work and I wanted to move forward quicker. When it comes to the burner, I am now of the opinion that I should have followed an initial design without exception. It would have been faster. But I also have learned more from tweaking and tuning what I have, so I don’t lose too much sleep over it. My advice is that the burner designs that are shared have been tweaked to very good performance. And if you want to have an immediately usable burner, the best path is to stick to the exact design that is proven. If you want to play with design and see if you can make something original, it will take some additional work and feedback, but you also gain more experience. In my case, my burner was much too fuel rich and it was choking a little bit even at high pressure. I ended up poking holes at the top to allow for a leaner mix, and it runs OK. I can heat up stock in a few minutes, but I don’t think I am getting to a forging heat yet. And one of my burners runs hotter, but my forge volume is not uniform from front to back. If I were to build a new forge today, I would go with a square body to allow better tolerances for volume and I would use Frosty’s burner design because it is (in my opinion) the easiest build for materials from both cost and availability. So my advice is to decide if you want to be able to get to forging as quickly as possible, use a proven design as it will get you to that end the fastest. If your passion is the fabrication of the forge and you want to experiment and tweak, you can try out some things that are not an exact proven model. I think you can make a good burner with adjustments based on recommended ratios, but it will take more time than following something that is already proven. I personally really enjoyed fabricating something based on concepts and that was more enjoyable for me. I was as excited to build the forge and burner as I was to start forging. And if that is what you are passionate about, then experiment and have fun. It is not a single answer for individuals, but a decision based on what you prioritize, forging as quickly as possible or building something that you design and tweak. Hopefully my experience and input help you decide the right path. Post updates and photos as you progress. I look,forward to seeing what you decide and how your journey unfolds! It is addictive! Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DungeonX Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Hi All, I am new as well. just started gathering the pieces to construct my first burner. i got 14T mig tips but they seem like they will be too small for the 1/8" schedule 80 pipe and that's before threading. what should I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 23 minutes ago, DungeonX said: I am new as well. 26 minutes ago, DungeonX said: what should I do? Welcome to IFI... I suggest reading this thread and starting a new one for your build. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/53873-read-this-first/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Could his flame retention nozzle work out okay? It depends. I think this shape is in the ballpark. The critical factor will depend on whether or not he can use it to build a SLIDING nozzle with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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